Troy was never going to be megatron, convince me otherwise

Don’t be a Steve. Always use Spoiler tags.

■■■■ you auto spawn text, you dont own me.

Here’s the point - Troy was never going to be big bad. There was never a point where that was even possible. I’ve heard multiple people argue “that’s where they thought the story was going” and I think that’s bad plot math.

Troy was always going to be starscream.

Tyreen was always megatron.

Explain to me why you think it’s otherwise.

What’s the point of the sibling tension in the first place? If not to hint at conflict?

And in MULTIPLE timelines starscreen has schemed to get out of Megatron’s shadow. Every plot thread created needs an end. The dialogue and scenes are wasted otherwise. If troy was never meant to usurp tyreen, then the writers never should have wasted dialogue and scenes on the notion. Especially when those scene could have been used to build characters and develop the story.

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The entire bit is the the entire idea as siblings as your rival. They play off each other very well and make for one whole entity that the player wants to go up on.

And he always failed.

They’re not wasted because they create plot, in division between the opposition. He makes a very real case for “wanting” the crown, but having never earned it.

There’s not a point in the game where I’m like “Oh, Troy is going to be the guy.”

Because he’s not.

Tyreen is the guy.

Sorry let me elaborate. I don’t think Troy should be the guy. I actually have no emotion to whether of not tyreen or troy becomes the big bad. Both characters are trash.

My issue is that the writers WASTED time, on the notion. They wasted viable scenes and dialogue on a plot point that never even almost materialized. That’s wasted writing. It’s the equivalent of meaningless small talk. Starscream and Megatron are different in one VERY IMPORTANT way. The tension was acted upon in the story. Starscream wants to be #1. so He plots to be number one. He attempts to be #1. That is a plot thread, acted upon. That’s good writing. Whether he actually becomes the big bad or not doesn’t actually matter. The writers didn’t waste time dwelling on something that wouldn’t materialize in the plot

Gearbox writers DID waste time.

Troy wants to move out the shadow of his sister. Become the big bad. Troy never attempts to do this. All he does is SAYS he wants to do so. That is meaningless dialogue because the writers never act on it

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Fair. Arbitrary, but kind of fair.

This is where I disagree - There’s not a point in BL3’s writing where Troy doesn’t want to be the guy, especially if you hit into side quests. His entire boss fight is him sucking life from Tyreen (and I’ll say the shittiest part of writing is why she’s unable to block it there - I’ve not seen a good argument for that). He always wants to be the star, the standout, but threen has him beat. Not only does she have the good youtube callouts (god queen-tyreen, that just works as a rhyme scheme and selling subs), but he’s never there.

I feel like if his boss fight wasn’t such a walkover (which some people argue is harder than tyreens for some ■■■■■■■ reason) wouldn’t have been as bad.

I feel like the intentions and actions he takes are there… but as what we see as the players doesn’t affect.

My main degree is that a lot of people take this “half wrong” as to “TROY SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE GUY” and I’m like “no, that was never even remotely in the cards”

exactly. well put.

I think where we differ is that I don’t see him sucking the energy out of tyreen as him acting on the plot thread that he wants to be number one. (Which is where you also spotted the source of our disagreement). I think that was an agreed upon plan that he was about to take to0 far while he was understandably drunk on power and high on being so close to their sibling dream. I don’t think it was out of malice for his sister. He offers words of encouragement and reminds her of “their” dream the whole time

Let me remind you, Troy NEVER say’s “i” when referring to obtaining power. It’s always tyreen that forgets to include him. She’s the one that never says “we”. he never lost sight that they were a team.

If he was intentionally sucking the enegery out of his sister in order to kill her that would be a different story, and the writers can imply that’s what he’s doing during the scene with a simple voiceline.But based on what he’s saying, it seems to me that he was wholly focused on opening the vault. And he was using tyreen’s stored energy as a substitute for eridium. I thought it was a agreed upon plan. Not him attacking his sister. NEVER EVER got the impression during the fight

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See I just played through that whole bit the second time and I don’t get that… at all. By plot he’s supposed to be the one phaselocking a moon, because he got Maya’s powers.

(sidenote, this could just be ■■■■■■ writing, and where I find fault - if Tyreen is taxing herself, this whole scene plays out very well to me)

But the way it plays is… you’re fighting troy, he’s constantly going back to Tyreen, who is literally screaming YOU’RE ■■■■■■■ HURTING ME and he doesn’t care, because everything he has is playing off her skills and what he’s gotten via her.

She’s clearly not on board through any part of it, which is what makes the fight so creepy.

Now if she was grasping it, and he’s stealing powers from her, that’s different. He’s clearly using it as a standup for his own shortcomings in the longt\erm though.

The simple fact that there are literally dozens of possible comparisons shows the unoriginal nature of the story. I really am not a big movie guy, but I could predict half of the story and almost none of the interesting plot points were followed through.
I never expected Troy to become the big bad or even powerful for that matter (which WAS a nice surprise!) but that the writers didn’t even bother to break with the most common (and uninteresting) cliches to divert expectations (in a good way), made the twins pretty uninteresting as a whole. And that comes from someone that likes them as a concept.

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I’m sorry man. I don’t see it from your perspective. There is no way in my mind, Troy forcibly starting draining tyreen against her will. I believe Tyreen let him drain her to make sure their mission is complete, and he started taking it too far. If you are right, then the writers did a BEYOND PISS POOR job at communicating that Troy basically attacked Tyreen. My perspective is based on what was communicated by the writers. If Troy attacked tyreen we as consumers missed a VERY IMPORTANT plot point, and pivotal character moment that we should have seen. And as much as i have no faith in the writers, there is no way in my mind that this pivital climax happened off screen.

Hell, If Troy attacked Tyreen, it would fix the siblings ENTIRE plot. There is simply no way that happened, and if it did happen. There is no way it happened off-screen. Troy attacking tyreen off-screen, would be the equivalent of Lilith losing her powers off-screen. It’s too big a plot point to not SHOW the audience

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This is part of a different thread , but I had several IRL friends who said the same thing about Ava and… I never got it? Could be me, and I like to think I’m pretty anal about tvtropes things. I was mostly just boned about her being ready to murderfuck thigns as much as I was.

Still, there are comparisons there that lend some creedance, hence the argument buuuut-

Not sure I follow here. He was always dependent on her style and feed out. I like the twin styling, but it was always done with the siren being the dominant bit here so… me seeing all the posts talking about how Troy was going to be the breakout thing just kind of… put me off because I don’t think that was something ever expressed in the writing, as bad as anyone wants to call it.

It was never a thing. I don’t know how it was “expected and subverted”.

Troy showed clear signs that he was just fed up with him being just the leech, which he expressed pretty clear (in my opinion) in the scene where he phaselocks us.

That he was a universal leech and not just on Tyreen made him a possible threat and potentially even able to sustain himself, so there was potential for him living independent.
And the way how absurdly strong he got and how fast he adapted the Phaselock was also pretty impressive. I had somewhat hoped that he would just break up with Tyreen and both went on a race against each other, which would result in the player being part of a hate triangle. Also, there are some echos that portrait him in a nicer and more naive way, which also just wasn’t utilized in the main story.

And last but not least, they could have used a different cliche to their advantage: The “noble” sacrifice! I know I’m reaching here, but Gearbox could’ve have showed Troy becoming unsure about the great vault and about the consequences, which would lead to him doubting the whole plan, getting forced to play along as he is just the leech. In the end he could turn on Tyreen, fully aware that it would mean his death and even help us to stop her, with the final cutscene (or the end credits) showing him on his deathbed, dying a free man.

In general there was a lot of wasted potential and hinted character growth, which unfortunately was barely utilized.

@narfkeks I respect you enough, and have done enough words at you to make a point that whatever you said in this wall of words is something that I’m going to respond to.

What I will tell you right now, is that I’m drunk as ■■■■ trying to make it through my TVHM run, and this topic is bigger than my drunk ass britches.

So shoot me a PM tomorrow, so I can hope to respond when I’m not drunka s ■■■■ and your text doesn’t look like a blurry scream.

My point is, this is not an MRA thing, and I don’t think you’re going that route.

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Troy is MegaTroy even in Transformers. He’s also the Joker in the new movie. ;>

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