Before someone says “but that’s how Mayhem is supposed to be”, I will point out that a game is worth playing as long as you have fun.
If the game makes your gameplay so uncomfortable to the point you don’t want to play anymore (or you can’t), then that’s a failure.
Actually, you can see the thread called “I’m already taking a break from BL3” (or something like this) is one with the most comment here on the forum (306 by now).
Right, great point. I really see no reason to not have the option to toggle it on or off. Everyone wins, this isn’t PvP.
I can understand how some people don’t want the benefits of playing with modifiers to be taken away from the game.
But in that case, maybe Gearbox can halve the loot drop rate of simple mayhem only to transfer it into the modifiers themselves, so anyone who wants to farm for new gears is almost forced to play with modifiers.
Or maybe 60% drop rate on mayhem + 40% drop rate with modifiers. 70-30, 55-45… there are a lot of combinations.
Anything to find a common ground on this issue.
Title edited from ‘of’ to ‘off’ because I just can’t take it any more.
LOL “People do scaled takedown for the challenge, they definitely don’t care that you get a crap ton more loot because of it” yep that sounds logical.
That is literally the main reason people run true takedown. They get better loot, which makes future takedowns easier. That’s the game play loop in a nutshell.
… wut
They care about gameplay and loot. Challenge is a distance third. Obviously people get bored if the game is too easy, so there needs to be some level of challenge to keep them engaged. But to say that loot isn’t the reason most people play this game… you are REALLY pulling at straws here. The entire franchise is built around LOOT. Every promotional thing has shown off loot front and center because that’s what draws the most players and keeps them playing. The BL3 trailer made it a big point that there are OVER A BILLION GUNS and every event is a LOOTSPLOSION.
But yea, challenge, that’s definitely the focus of the majority of the player base.
I’ma press X to doubt this. Very much.
There is no such thing as “I have all the gear I want” in Borderlands.
That’s not how that works. Maybe if you have a bad build where you can’t plow through true takedown quickly it’s faster, but if you have the gear to do it true takedown is a MUCH faster way to get loot.
Oh wow 306 comments. Probably from the same group of people, so let’s be generous and say everyone posted twice, that’s about 150 unique posters. There are what, 10k active users on these forums? That’s 1.5% at best. Now compare it to the millions that bought the game. Yea, barely a drop in the bucket.
As I said before, it’s a proven fact that it takes 4 positive experiences to equal 1 negative experience. If you are unhappy with something you are 4 times more likely to complain about it. That means for every person out there unhappy with mayhem that voices their complaints, there are 4 more that are happy with it but will not come to praise the game. This is proven psychology.
Or they can just rebalance some of the more ridiculous modifiers, like cryo immune/explosions and the FFYL one.
Maybe this is a solution, but again modifiers are a key component to mayhem. It’d be like playing Super Mario but they took out all the goombas. They’d have to redesign the entire system, which is a lot of work especially considering they JUST did that with mayhem 2.0.
As I said that’s a valid perspective to look at the game - but not the only one. And the way you claim that we don’t seek the challenge is frankly pretty insulting. Look, there was a huge playerbase in BL2 which just used certain software to just make perfectly parted guns that they wanted - entirely eliminating the farming process from the game. And yet these are the same players that have thousands of hours spent in the game - if farming loot was of 0 concern - then what kept these players playing? It was obviously for the gameplay and to challenge oneself.
Sure, I didn’t have every gun in the game. But by trading and farming, I had every I needed for my core set-ups - Sniper Zer0, Hellborn Krieg etc. To play Sniper Zer0, all you needed were Lyudas and Pimpernels of the core 3 elements, a slag pimp, a decent Muckamuck, and Antagonist/Sham and a slag transfusion. I used the same Leg Sniper since 52 because I didn’t want to suffer too great a shield penalty. Once I had these things, I cared alot more about playing the game - doing speedruns, digipeak etc.
Once more, no one is saying the way you choose to play is wrong - but is it too much to ask for you to respect that others can have different opinions and way they choose to play the game? We have been nothing but respectful to you but all I can see is your continued condescension, and refusal to admit that somehow just because we don’t want to play with annoying modifiers, we don’t play to challenge ourselves.
I’m a patient man if I want. I can wait.
bruh true takedown loot is still bad lol it doesnt even increase wotan/valkyrie dedicated drops
the only point i do it is for occasional challenge. if i wanted dedicated loot, i’d do it scaled bc its way faster
if i wanted a world drop fest id just farm graveward or gigamind
It is the primary one though. Majority of people play the game to get more loot. They wouldn’t even mention challenge for reasons why they play.
Again I never said this. Stop reading what isn’t there. I said that loot > challenge. By a significant margin for most players.
“Huge” is a stretch. It really is.
Plus if these players actually wanted a challenge they would have gone out to farm the loot because doing that is actually harder than modding them into the game.
That’s fine, but just because you and a small subset of players did this does not mean that majority of players share that same goal. Again, LOOT is a major selling point of the game. It’s mentioned front and center in every trailer, every announcement, everything about this game since day 1 Borderlands 1 has been about loot. Challenge is a distant third.
I’m not saying that either, I’m just giving you a practical view of the BL playerbase.
When did I disrespect anyone? You are reading stuff that isn’t there. I say “loot > challenge” you read “no one cares for challenge”. Stop assuming my argument and actually read what I’ve been writing.
You may want to challenge yourself, but MOST PLAYERS will go with what is easier. If the option to straight up turn off modifiers was there, with no penalty to rewards (ie. LOOT), then most players would turn them off just for convenience because they want better loot. SOME will SOMETIMES turn them on for a challenge, but not enough to justify the time spent designing and implementing them into the game.
Stop arguing with emotion. I’ve presented very logical arguments here nothing else.
Never said I was a psychology major.
Also there’s nothing delusional about expecting people to take the path of least resistance. That’s kind of common sense.
If you lived on the other side of a mountain from your job, would you scale the mountain every day to get to work “for the challenge” or would you drive your car like a normal person?
BTW if you don’t pick the former, you are a hypocrite.
This right here proves my point 1000%.
“Occasional challenge” as in you do it sometimes for the novelty. But then you do what is easier to get loot faster. This is EXACTLY what would happen if you could turn off mayhem modifiers with no penalty to loot, or even a mild penalty to loot. No one would play with them except once in a while for the novelty of the challenge. They might as well not exist at this point.
Your disrespect comes from claiming everything we do is for better loot, or when you claimed we would always pick the path of least resistance, or how you claimed if M5 had the same loot as M10 we would choose to play there.
OR
OR
I never claimed players couldn’t prioritize loot over challenge or gameplay - in fact I have repeatedly highlighted how there is a sizeable playerbase in all 3 Borderlands games which do precisely that. But what you can’t seem to wrap around your head is how a fairly large proportion of the hardcore playerbase actually doesn’t care much for loot at all - that Borderlands for us is all about challenging ourselves, speedrunning, minmaxing. making great builds. I also never claimed that this was the majority of the players as you are repeatedly implying - it is sizeable, but obviously I don’t have the statistics to say it is the majority.
well yeah but thats only bc gearbox refuses to up dedicated drop rates depending in w/e mode ur in for some reason
and its not like i speak for everyone else. my top priority in borderlands has always been its story, characters, and artstyle. loot and challenge are tied second for me
dont see how people playing ez mode affects me at all tho
This is you taking offense when no offense was given.
Plus it’s proven human behavior to want rewards for things. It is how we are wired. It is nature. You’re offended by science here.
“Fairly large proportion of the hardcore playerbase” is a very empty claim. Sorry. Present some actual numbers or this statement holds no merit outside of what you say it does.
You literally JUST said this the sentence before.
Look you are getting offended by science and assuming I’m saying you, YOU, are exactly like this. I’m not saying that. If you wanna do… whatever in the game I don’t care. But don’t go around saying that most players play for the challenge when it’s pretty clear that loot is the major reason most people play this game.
You seem to be taking all my statements personally, and you fail to realize that maybe (keyword) YOUR experience is the outlier here.
I don’t know, the statements I quoted above seemed fairly personal, especially the first one.
And as much as I cannot back up my claims with statistics other than anecdotal evidence, neither can you back up yours with any numbers either. Short of a poll done by GB, I don’t see how you expect either of us to back our claims with numerical evidence.
And can’t that reward be different for different players? Maybe the reward for you is being able to to get increasingly better gear with perfect anointments - but the reward for us is the gameplay or exceeding ourselves, or better arena timings, or a more polished out build.
I do have evidence though. Basic psychology. The fact that LOOT is front in center in every kind of promotion for the franchise ever. The fact that one of the major goals of the game is to get better loot, to have stronger builds, and that this IS the core gameplay loop.
Kill stuff > get loot > maximize build potential > kill stuff > get loot > maximize build potential > kill stu…
There is a lot of evidence to support what I’m saying. Just look at the forums 6 months ago. How many threads about loot this or dedicated drops that… There is a lot of people concerned with loot. It’s the entire premise of the game. Challenge is good but it’s not a major priority for most people that play the game.
I said above that maybe changing loot drops for modifiers could work, but to me it makes a lot more sense to just balance the ridiculous modifiers like cryo immune/explosions and such. I don’t like EVERY modifier, most I just accept really. But it’s not so detrimental to my experience that I’m demanding a change to the core design of mayhem. The overall design is just fine, it’s only some modifiers are really dumb. Backpedaling on the design is a bad move for a lot of reasons I’ve already gone over.
