Typecast players


(Killing Floor 2) #1

I’m not sure if the term has ever been used to identify players, but you are technically playing a role or sorts so I guess it fits quite nicely. :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, some people tend to stick to only one character, two if they feel adventurous. While there’s usually nothing wrong with that we can have one issue that I’ve noticed since I’ve started playing the BL series back in 2009 that’s still cropping up today.

The people that tend to only use one character and only one, understand the game by the strengths and weaknesses of only that single aspect and they seem to judge balance of the entire game just on that one style of play. Let’s take Nisha for example: Insane DPS, specced even in a slightly moderately efficient way, everything will usually be dead before Showdown ends. If it’s not, it’s going to be dead as soon as Showdown ends thanks to Unforgiven because… BOOM. You’ve got insane mobbing skills, super survival thanks to LaO and as long as there’s minions to kill while facing a boss, the fight will always be very quick.

While this is great for Nisha, not every character is the same, my Wilhelm will never be able to match DPS with Nisha yet people that tend to favor a character that strong will want the game balanced around that massive DPS output which might be great for something that can kill so fast, but it would be horrible for characters that simply can’t keep up with that. It’s similar to how all those Sal players said that the game was so easy, yet if they ventured outside of their comfort zones and played someone besides Sal, they’d see that not everything can kill a raid boss in five shots.

I’m guilty of this in BL1, I only played as Lillith for the first year that the game was out because I loved the playstyle and besides Mass Effect, it was really my only experience with rpg’ish type games. I had no idea that the different characters would play so radically different. Once I tried the others, the game felt like a brand new world, I started to understand balance as an average and not a single point and I’ve never typecast myself since then. Bl2 I brought all my characters to OP5 and now in TPS my Athena is 60, Nisha and Wilhelm are in UVHM, Jack is almost done with TVHM and claptrap… well claptrap is level 10. But he’ll get there someday.

So, how does everyone else feel about this?


(JOIN ME ON MY PIG NOW) #2

I have played all of the characters (across all three games) and maxxed most of them so far. I love how each character presents unique differences in feel and style. I’m not even the slightest bit interested in which one is ‘best’, because for me, ‘best’ means ‘most fun’ and they are all a lot of fun.


#3

Everyone develops a reference point for each character. If you’re only playing one out of six potential characters then your view of the game’s balance will obviously be limited. But I don’t have a problem with players that decide that only one or two characters are right for them. Fortunately we can build each character a lot of different ways so even within that character you have options.

2K Australia did an amazing job with this game’s balance, character skill tree design, and new gameplay features like cryo, Oz kits, and new class mods. The more I’ve gotten into TPS the more I realize the imbalance in BL2 created a lot of the problems with players only seeing the game a certain way. I feel like I can play any of the characters any number of ways. For example, I’ve had a lot of fun building tanky characters with a focus on defense and survivability and it’s completely viable in TPS. That goes back to 2k Australia learning and improving upon BL2.


(Stoop) #4

I am definitely guilty of this. I generally try many of them but my playstyle is usually towards the DPS/Rogue/Glass cannon style characters. I’ve always been a minmaxing DPS guy in games, what can I say.

This leaks through to my forum posts all the time; once you get good with a high-DPS character, most of the game is much, much easier than if you’d been playing a tank, and I have to catch myself before calling encounters easy. The classic example of this was the super badass constructor just before BNK-3R in BL2; most people hated that thing in UVHM, but it was (literally) a one-hit-kill XP and loot farm for my Zer0. The same is (more or less) true of RK5 for me in TPS.

This time, I went with Athena for BL1 affinity reasons; she’s not the supreme DPS character, but I have kind of morphed her into one, and it turns out the game is even easier because she’s also basically unkillable. So, YMMV I guess.

Jury is still out on my next character in TPS; I have a Nisha and a Clappy levelling in the sub-10s, so it looks like I am back to my old pattern there, lol.


#5

@jd641 I agree with you that some players might see the game in a certain way based on their experiences with one or two characters only.
I agree with @Psychichazard point about different feel and style for each style. It is those differences in feel and style that keeps the game constantly fresh for me, and that makes the BL games more fun overall.

@BookEmDano makes a good point about options each character has offensively and defensively. A lot of the fun I have with the BL games is coming up with fun and effective builds, and this has helped to improve the longevity and fun factor of the game for me.

@Stoopicus I think you’ll fall in love with Nisha (DPS-ly, not romantically :wink: ). Claptrap is not bad either in the burst DPS department if you build him as an explosive damage specialist.


(Guajiro Pandoreño) #6

I agree with this for me, but can’t speak for other players. I certainly like the different “takes” on the game provided by each of the various characters (which is why I stick to allegiance play and single-instances of unique weaponry: it enhances this variety), but it may just not be for everyone.


#7

Guilty as charged. I always play and level every character in every game, but I am also attracted to one particular character in each who tends to become a “main” and will probably ultimately account for 75% or so of my total play time in that game. Gameplay with that character will almost automatically be what comes to me when I picture the experience of “playing Borderlands” in my mind.

It’s pretty predictably the gunslinger/lone wolf types. Mordecai, Zer0, and Nisha. They just feel too right to stray from for long.


(JOIN ME ON MY PIG NOW) #8

I do have favorites, though. Roland, Mord, Axton, Kreig, Maya, Clappy, and Doppelganger. So far.


(Davin Dittrich - the one and only Narf) #9

Guilty for myself: i mained Lilth/Mordecai, Krieg/Maya and now it seems to get Nisha/Timothy/Athena. But i played every char til the mid 40s at least to let the feeling sink in. But especially for the Krieg and Nisha-players, the games felt totally different. And Mayas crowd-control is still unmatched!


(Cast Iron Chef) #10

I played all four VHs in BL 1, but finished the game with Brick. I also played all of the VHs in BL 2, but finished the game with Krieg. I’ve played Clappy, Athena, and Wilhelm in TPS, and Clappy’s my highest level character (haven’t finished normal yet, but am very, very close to it). I wonder if that says something about me? :smirk:


("Prepare to be Moon Shat on!") #11

Guilty here. Played only Sal in BL2 to OP8 and almost 10 prestiges and only Nisha in TPS. To each their own. I have fun and that is all that matters to me.


#12

@Gulfwulf EXPLOSIONS?!?!


(Cast Iron Chef) #13

Explosions!

http://dc536.4shared.com/img/78OfIyCC/s3/Mr-Torgue.jpg


(Where's lucky?) #14

I kinda do this, I play them all but most times 1-2 characters just are more enjoyable to play for me so I stick with them. When I get a bit burnt out I switch to another but then usually go back to my main pretty quickly.


(Spilled the Paint) #15

I do this all the time. I played all the toons in BL2 and maxed out most but really I played Maya, in this game I keep going back to nisha


(Creative Instinct) #16

I agree with this, but am luckily no such ‘monster’. I think there’s nothing wrong with that, if people advise for one thing and someone else sees that their thinking focuses on one character’s approach only, they can tell him or her this and they will usually understand how their advice is flawed. I really only have seen intelligent people around here who could understand if someone told them that their thinking was limited, communication usually fails (if it does) because of someone’s wording, not their slow-wittedness.

I played every character in BL2 to OP8 and have some ‘duplicates’ like two Mayas, Kriegs and Salvadors, with each having a different main playstyle (one melee and one hellborn Krieg, one nurse and one cat/binder Maya), but of course I can’t play like some other people do.

I learned the game while playing a Salvador, and after finally learning about the Rubi plus literally anything combo and being able to ditch Brawn for Gunlust, I just can’t seem to take on fights the slow and safe way. My Zer0 dies from his own Kunai, melee Krieg dies because I had to get that one slag bouncing betty out before going into buzz axe rampage, even Maya dies because I didn’t instinctly focus my fire on the second rabid skag after the first one was done and subsequence picked some poor pup skag. For example, it pains me to see molmf take on enemies with a whole deception plus cooldown per enemy just to avoid getting downed.

I think I have a pretty evenly balanced view on most of BL2. Taking @Stoopicus’ example, I knew I wanted to take b0re at all costs when facing the bunker or the dreaded ultimate badass constructor before him, and I often did some more side missions with other characters to try and gear up as much as I could for that fight. On the other side I won’t ever attempt to raid as Axton ever again. 15 minute beehawk fest - no fun was had.

On TPS I of course mained Nisha, as most people who didn’t pick Athena did. Having a legit aimbot beats everything! Until you encounter TVHM Deadlift and he shreds you to pieces over and over again. You have to diversify your playing style, but for that you have to play the game, experience how your theoretical throught experiments work out, how well your character actually manages. Currently I have Clappy and Athena at 40, Jack and Wilhelm at 50 and Nisha at 60.

You only get knowledge through experiences, and you get experience by playing the game a lot. As long as you don’t pronounce your character of choice to be the be-all-end-all of the game and at least try to take on different perspectives, as you guys usually do, everything’s fine. At least I haven’t seen anyone force their views on anyone else, save for maybe the Flakker cult :stuck_out_tongue:


(Jakobs Public Relation) #17

What you describe also occurs within a class too. Zer0 is a great example of this, I lost count on how many people actually believe Melee Zer0 is the only viable way to play at UVHM. The more time you spend on something, you can make a non-conventional build LOOK amazing.

Someone with 10 hours into Zer0 is different than that 100 hour player, and even more so with the 1000 hour player.

The reason people hated Sal is the fact it is hard to discriminate from the 20 hour Sal to the 1000 one. Everything stayed the same, there is less to learn so you pick him up fast and reached his ceiling before you can say Cheese. Hell Gearbox even gave every Sal player a raid boss to feel special about.

Left 4 Dead competitive scene had a moving goal post for balance. As more and more players put hours & hours into the game the competitive rules also changed.

  • After 6 months we eliminate extra med pack spawns from the map.
  • After 9 months common infected dealt more damage
  • After 16 months all tier 2 weapons were banned except for the hunting rifle
  • After 24 months realism versus started to take off (no glows around survivors)
  • After 86 months we have Evolve, screw all the rules.

Anyway, nice thread. I find this topic extremely fascinating.


(Davin Dittrich - the one and only Narf) #18

These differences are what makes PvE-games far superior over pvp for me. You barely could get a good balance on a pvp-game with that drastically different chars.
That said, i have to admit i am a rusher-like-player. I love Nisha, Maya, Krieg and Timothy for their possible game speed and dynamics. But i hate Sal cause of senseless invincibility.
And i love mobbing.


(Greybeard) #19

My first post on the new forum.

22 characters in BL1; 9 characters in BL2 (plus 6 hand-built mules); 8 characters in TPS, to date. So you can see which side of the fence I’m on :smile:

I wonder if this split also correlates to those who want a farming “end game” and those who are indifferent? For me, the end game is to pick up another character and see how it develops this time. Having a backpack full of L60 legendaries is irrelevant because I’m playing a L1 character :smile:

Just a thought.


(CDR_Shepard) #20

I’d say that it took me more time to level my Zer0 to 72/OP+ than to level all 6 of the TPS characters thru UVHM to 60. The story mode is much shorter (easier too?) in TPS, plus – the TPS Guardian mission is very handy for speed-leveling. Some people just don’t have the time/inclination to spend so many hours gaming, either, so I certainly understand sticking with just a few characters.

Even after playing each TPS character through UVHM I still can’t decide which I prefer!