Unbalanced Sniper Rifles


The snipers are not strong enough to have such little ammo capacities, and should definitely be buffed since most Dahl SMG’s have the same range, better accuracy, similar damage, and way better DPS. Getting good is not the problem, they just aren’t good compared to nearly every other weapon available.

My Background and Play Style

Typically in most games I run sniper. In BL1 I mained Mordy and in BL2 I mained Zero and in the pre-sequel (dry heave) I played Nisha and Hammerlocks sister. Currently in 3, because of reasons, I am playing Moze in my coop and Zane on my solo. I will add the other two to my resume when I get the chance but as of now, that is what I am running. In the previous BL games the snipers were strong, sometimes overpowered and I understand the change in approach for BL3 but they have gone too far in the other direction.

Poor Value Proposition:

When assessing a weapons viability there are a few categories I look at:
-Raw DPS i.e. no abilities, active or passive, and no gear
-Modified DPS: Including abilities and gear (Bee shield + Lady Fist for Pres 2020)
-Combat range: close, medium, and long.
-Kills/Min: Not in boss fights just against regular ol’ enemies.
-Utility and Versitility: Can the weapon be used everywhere and anywhere.
-Sustainability: How much ammo is consumed versus your total ammo pool essentially.

So far in BL3 the snipers have no good value proposition. In terms of raw and modified DPS, range, kills/min, versitility, and sustainability every single sniper I have used is outdone by green and blue Dahl SMG’s.

The overall DPS is pretty poor. Matching element to armor/shield gets you a solid boost but they still fall way short compared to non-matching generic weapons. Because of this your kills/min is way lower. and I am an excellent sniper.

There range really has no use. They have a slightly further range then pretty much every weapon category. The weapon sway is a lot more random than previous games which I can deal with no problem, but I have noticed with my Jackobs snipers that the gun always seems to pull to the right so I always need to aim for the left side of the face.

As far as utility, the Vladoff are my favorite so far, the underbarrel rocket launcher really comes in handy, but I end up using it as a cheap rocket way more than as a sniper.

The final damning thing for the snipers is sustainability. It seems like the snipers are much more intended to be DMR’s (think Halo DMR’s vs Halo snipers) in this game but it doesn’t work because you burn through your ammo too quickly for 2-4 shots per generic enemy to be worth it. Again, a good Dahl smg with an auto/semi-auto fire will pile up 10 times the bodies before you are completely tapped on ammo. The fact of the matter is, most weapons have a significantly better value proposition than sniper rifles and for the most part it doesn’t even seem like it is worth bringing them.

What makes snipers good in games typically is high risk high reward. Typically the high damage slow fire rate makes them viable compared to other weapons but the damage just isn’t there anymore. Missed shots cannot be made up for with a hot streak, because even at a 75% accuracy they aren’t great and with 100% they are barely worth it.

The Character and Class Argument

Yes, for UVH and TVH snipers should not be a staple for any character and typically should be reserved for the sniper class who gets the modifiers for crits and snipers. That 100% did not stop my from running a sniper on every single character but Gage throughout all of UVH on every character. However, they need to be strong in the regular play through for anyone because you will not have the perks and class mods to make them strong. Full disclaimer, I have s*** to do, I have not gotten to TVH yet, but if how BL2 says anything about scaling it means that they will be around half as effective in UVH, so yeah.

Late Game Snipers = Worse Snipers

Snipers appear to not only be weak, but continue to get weaker as I forge ahead and they problem should only get worse in TVH and UVH. Correct me if I am wrong here, but I only have seen snipers stay the same or get worse.

What Happened to Jackobs

If you ask most players, they probably would not put a Jackobs sniper in the top 5 snipers for BL2. The overall fire rate, increased recoil and sway, as well as the lack of elemental damage made them always solid choices, but rarely the best. The muckamuck were always consistently good for generic enemies and the last sniper they threw in for the commander lilith dlc was actually a monster in my opinion. However now, the Jackobs snipers are trash. Not just not great but trash because without the elemental matching buff they do not do enough damage. Even with Moze and her random fire damage buff I still am yet to oneshot even the lowest level enemies. The bullet reflection is random and at least in my experience usually misses. In addition they have a way less consistent spread and weapon sway for days. I keep buying and trying them only to just throw them back in the shop because three shots to take down a tink is a waste of time when in the same time frame I could drop two enemies with an SMG from the same range.

Never been a big fan of Dahl snipers in the past but they are okay in BL3, but just okay. I don’t think they are worth the bother compared to hyperion and vladof

I got the expert storm, used it in two fights, and threw it in the vault. Damage was crap even against shielded enemies, and it took 800 years to fire and fired on full charge so yeah, wasn’t a great experience. The other Maliwan ones I’ve tried continue failing to impress.

Vladof and Hyperion
Definitely the cream of the crop in my opinion. The high capacity, low sway, and under-barrel RPG on the Vladof are great, especially when paired with Moze ammo use negation and regeneration abilities. The Vladof rocket-snipers (if you have found one you know what I am talking about) actually feel like proper snipers in damage/range/etc. and I am a fan. They are however rocket launchers and not snipers though so moving on. The Hyperion have totally flip flopped from BL2 and now are more accurate than Jackobs on the first shot and quickly turn into lazer pointers. Adding elemental to either makes them both okay, but at the end of the day, they still are not near as good as pretty much every other weapons category.

How to Fix Them

  • I think an across the board 10% base damage increase is a must, at least as a start.
  • Increased Critical Hit damage: Make people pay for poor accuracy, but make it to where those with high accuracy are rewarded for their awesomeness.
  • Increased ammo pickups and increased ammo carrying capacity, increased SDU effectiveness: if you are committing to the lower damage, at least make it to where you can get more than 3 clips in before you are totally out of ammo.
  • Nerf elemental bonus, raise overall damage: The elemental bonus is currently the only saving grace but in order to prevent it from becoming unbalanced in the opposite way, this is probably what should be done.

Why the Sudden Change in Snipers?

This is more of an open discussion but I want to know what exactly what is wrong with how snipers have been in the past two games. When you get down too it, In my opinion the three best UVH characters were Salvador, Krieg, and Zer0, but what made them good was always there abilities. With Zer0 the only time he got broken broken was with Bore so why the sudden nerfing on snipers?! Krieg and Sal were broken because of ■■■■■■■■ positive feedback mechanics and arguably Zer0 was the only one that relied on skill and now you have nerfed the high skill weapons for what exactly? Because you got mad when you buddy with a sniper would drop all of the bandits before you could finish scratching and sniffing your butt cheeks?! Is this a personal vendetta against people that are better than you!!! Did your mommy not love you enough when you were little!!! LOOK INTO MY EYES WHILE I RANT AT YOU!!!

No one cares what I think, no one read this, I just wanted to rant and feel better that is all. Please give me back my snipers. If your opinion is anything around either “I can’t hit things with a sniper anyways” or “Git gud” my response is “Git gud” and “I snipe the heads off of Goliaths because hitting the little head lets me kill them faster, please shut your peasant mouth” in that order.

PS Conner, your fly is down

Did you check?

You don’t even have a zipper.

You are the human version of claptrap.

I don’t, I did.

But yes, snipers just don’t feel right in this game. Shotguns, on the other hand, feel amazing!

I’m similar to you in that I haven’t started TVHM, but have found Jakob snipers to my liking.

I use Moze - with the increased weapon swap speed, been taking one shot then finishing off with secondary (currently using the hellwalker)

I highly recommend the minigun tree plus Vladof snipers. The ammo regen basically gives you a bottomless clip.

Torgue gyrojet shotguns are broke AF.

Well, I agree but I’m also conflicted.
I, too, am drawn to snipers and prefer Jackobs. I played as FL4K and chose the critical hits skill tree. Was kind of annoyed that most enemies were taking 2 critical hits to kill with a blue sniper of comparable level.
However, I know a lot of people hate how much HP enemies had in BL2, but it was actually no different. I’m just so used to all my VH in BL2 having purple Jackob’s snipers (or some other legendary) at any given level and with boosted 30% gun and 25% critical hit damage so they can one shot everything, but that’s not how it works for most characters on the first play through.

2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Thou Shalt Not Spam