Underpowered Ships in HWR/HW2

These ships could really use some love.

Hiig:
-Gunship Corvettes: Almost never used in hw2 MP, they could definitely use more damage vs fighters (I think scole already gave them a slight buff).

Vaygr:
-Lance Fighters: In tests from hw2, assault craft perform better in most all situations and simply about the same vs some corvettes. They should be much better vs corvettes per the ship description.
-Assult Frigates: Were basically never used in hw2 MP as they dont do much damage. Would be cool if it was a better cross between a flak and torpedo frig, doing half decent damage to both fighters and corvs.
-Hyperspace gates: expensive to get and easy to kill. Would be awesume to see these actually used online.

Hiig/Vaygr:
-Minelayer Corvettes: easily picked off from range by torpedo frigates and destroyers if my memory is correct. Seemed like mines did ok/good damage though. Could maybe give the minelayer a lot more health/armor or something. Those things should be a tank considering what they’re carrying. :slight_smile:

I didnt include hw1 ships, as it sounds like the next patch will change them significantly.

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I thought this was the supposed counter to Laser Corvettes?
Not saying you’re wrong, they aren’t the greatest unit.

These to me feel like they are stuck in multi-role limbo…

I already struck a mine by asking about this one, so it’s no surprise that I agree. I’d kind of like to see it as a corvette hunter, but Hiigara is already getting very beat down in that category…

I have never even seen these used, I’m guessing they’re not really worth the time investment and games are mostly too short/quick for anyone to successfully use them. How do you propose to improve these? Reduced cost? construction time?

I’d like mines to be a thing, but the amount of time required to set them up when they are so simple to skirt around, not to mention the RU investment makes it really hard for these to make any contribution. Do mines explode immediately on contact? If they do I’d be in favor of having them delayed so that a fleet can get caught in the center of them, instead of touching the field and then stopping, but beyond those changes the damn things probably shouldn’t require research so we can see minefields in play.

@Cloaked

I agree with everything you’ve listed, but I’d also like to see Defense Field frigates receive some of the love. I never see these being used, and it’s with good reason.

Gunships :

Laser vettes? Gunships are supposed to kill fighters and they suck at it. When someone in your team starts making them, you sweat.

Lance :

No, they’re not multi role… While I think that lances aren’t used quite often, they do their job well except it usually gets eaten by enemy fighters and missile vettes usually just shadow its usefulness.

Hypergate :

Currently it’s such a big investment (hyperspace research, 2 gates and 1k to link) when a hyper sig sensor will easily reveal where they are and they’re are not movable once placed and 1 gate kill will cost you 1750. I’d say make them movable any amount of times like HW1 utilities which makes a lot more sense.

Minelayers :
This is hard to make it useful, maybe HW1 vets got better ideas. Making it a 3 ship squadron will make it tougher but mine laying can really fortify your place, it could get games to drag on.

You should mention that “good reason”.
DFF has its use but a little too expensive to start using them too often. Buffing this too much is going to make fights last forever rotating them.

That’s how Kruxxen was making 'em out to be, and they did seem fairly effective at the role, where as basically nothing else can touch them (thanks to the laser bug mostly).

That would make them a lot more useful.

Well if we had instant access to minelayers, but individual mines/fields cost RU, they would have a trade off without being an awful strategy to persue maybe. Perhaps scouts could take up the role of defusal / being near-immune to minefields?
I’m assuming you can hyperspace through these aswell?

I don’t know, they right now just seem like added micromanagement for little benefit. Wouldn’t know where to go with these really.

It’s pulsars who rip lasers apart not gunships.

It can give you a decent advantage, especially if you have about 2 of them cloaked but again, it’s not too easy to pull that off because of the cost.

Ah yeah of course, my bad.

Scouts are already immune to minefields…as are all corvettes/strikecraft!

I actually use mines and find them fairly effective! I don’t think they need a power up!

Hiigaran:
■Gunship Corvettes - These should be the PRIMARY anti-fighter ship, but instead, they’re a useless piece of crap. They need to pop fighters like a needle touching a balloon.

Vaygr:
■Assault Frigates - They aren’t used. They should obviously become more viable. I say make them cheaper.
■Hyperspace Gates - Definitely need to be used more. Vagyr are space pirates, right? Make these gates TANKS. When they are placed, make it tough for the enemy to kill them, otherwise they know ships are coming through. Give them something like 25k armor.


Even though Homeworld 1 races are getting some changes with fighters and stuff soon, there are still some BROKEN ships.

■Cloaked Fighters - They need to cloak.
■Bombers - They need to be able to bomb things. They need a damage increase.
■Assault Frigates - Their accuracy needs to be doubled. At least. Their damage is fine. Their accuracy is atrocious.
■Multi-gun Corvettes - No one builds them because they don’t work.
■Heavy Corvettes - These should be anti-corvette and anti-capital. I don’t know why they even have a special flak ability. It sucks.
■Minelayer Corvette - These weren’t used in multiplayer in the other games very much. The mines ARE strong. They annihilate fleets of frigates when set up, but no one takes the time to set them up. It takes too long. So I say increase the mine-laying speed by 100%. Their armor doesn’t have to be increased like Magitex suggested, though. I also say increase their build speed by 25%. This is a unit I would like to see in action more than any other. It’s tactical use is immense. You can block enemy routes to your base. You can set traps at resource operations. This is an amazingly useful unit that is under-used.

■Defense Field Frigate - Drop the price. It’s the only way to get someone to build them. They are a powerful tactical tool. Very powerful.

I don’t think I made this suggestion for the record…

The “official balance mod” is not only changing HW1. Hiig Gunship is already getting buffed.

Are Lance Fighters really that bad? They seemed fine against corvs in my tests. The problem seems mostly to be that Pulsars are too good vs fighters, and just their attack pattern which might also get redone which affects them more than most strike craft.

Think you mean Lancers. Lancers and Hiig Gunships pretty much go 1:1 for each other. But the Gunships cost more. They should be slightly ahead with the buff.

And like I said, Pulsars are too good vs fighters so Pulsars also pretty much go 1:1 against lance fighters. With Pulsars getting an accuracy nerf vs fighters, that problem is fixed.

So it should be lancers>pulsars>gunships>lancers with the changes. If Missile corvs also beat Lancers, then that’s something else that needs looking at. Lancers themselves don’t need a buff.

If people use them to fortify, just force target the mines with fighters. They were useful in HW1 because you would them aggressively. No one used them to fortify positions. Once they were on the field they had to be dealt with. Kind of like salvage corvette, they became priority targets.

Mines in the Minelayer Corvette’s stores now explode when the Minelayer Corvette Kamikazes /s

Sorry, Cloaked made the armor suggestion about minelayers. My mistake. Didn’t mean to call you out, Magitex.

  • The Hiigaran Gunships definitely need a boost. I haven’t seen one lately. Maybe it’s because Pulsars are actually just as good as the Gunships in their primary role. Boost the Gunships’ damage and accuracy against Fighters, lower Pulsars’ accuracy against Fighters.

  • Lance Fighters get torn up a bit too quickly against Pulsars, I don’t make them anymore since Missile Corvettes deal with Pulsars better at the moment. My suggestion here is to make the Lance Fighters deal more damage against Corvettes. Honestly, I rarely build Vaygr Bombers. AC and LC squadrons are more than able against modules.

  • The Vaygr Assault Frigate shouldn’t need to be researched. There should be an upgrade to make the thing hit harder or just have more guns. Or even move faster. Something.

  • I use Hyperspace Gates, but only when the game’s dragging on. Saves on jump costs. But man you’d think the Vaygr would build the things tough. I’d be okay with more research options to make these much beefier. Having them be re-usable and as flimsy as they are now would only make them better targets. It’d be easy to make this a bit too powerful too if that were the case.

Completely off the rails idea: I want support frigates for the Vaygr. With such a Strike Craft centric force, usually, it makes sense for the Vaygr to have support frigates. Not to repair capital ships, but a ship for the fighters and corvettes to dock. Something that may even move faster than frigates.

With the proposed changes to the way squadrons would be repaired, this wouldn’t be too bad would it?

EDIT: Yes, I do use Carriers quite aggressively but they’re annoying and are limited in numbers. One for Fighters, 2 for Corvettes, 2 for Frigates, and that’s it. In bigger games you’ll need that production.

What’s a real shame about minelayers is that you have to babysit the layers to keep them safe from fighters/vettes since the mines are specifically disallowed from targeting them-which makes sense RU wise because mines are free but lethal. On top of that the range of a mine is ~1000 (from memory) so frigates can sit outside the field and attack the layers.

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Ya, in skilled games you would just snipe them from range and then just wait for the mines to time out. Obvously everyone stopped using them pretty quickly.

Longer mine range? Infinite mine duration but limited to only so many mines per minelayer? Not sure if hw1 mines expired. Anyone have any ideas?

Dff are actually a good unit imho, that take a lot of micro. Me/Hideki used to use them in 1v1s. Typically they’re very late game units however, kinda the capstone units you want to complete your fleet after you’ve already got your tech, upgrades, and FCTs.

They are a bit expensive though. Would be cool to see a Hiig DFF buff and a Vaygr hyperspace gate buff, to further distinguish the races (frigs vs swarm as their strengths).

Actually, if the mines didn’t have a time limit, but only so mines allowed per minelayer corvette = perfect! What makes Minelayers so damn vulnerable is how they have to stick around to continually replace mines that ‘time out’!

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