I made this list with everyone being at their best, meaning it will be no simple task to “just do this” against the characters. Remember, the people you play against have a brain. With Alani, even if you push her back, she can push you back, while pushing minions forward and healing players, give them a speed boost, heal herself or, her teammate, stun you in a bubble for 1.5 seconds while keeping her distance from you. (And this isn’t even considering a master Rath who can silence, slow, and of course Dreadwind)
I said this because “how easy is it to exploit a characters weakness” is a huge factor to me. Alani and OM have weaknesses but they aren’t that exploitable and it’s very difficult to exploit, while characters like Toby it’s very easy to exploit.
It just looks like this list is being evaluated in a vacuum, which makes no sense given this is a team based game. You say Deande is no game changer like Alani, but given Deande has really, really good assassination tools, she can burst the same game changing Alani in a short amount of time with the Alani not knowing what’s happening until she’s almost dead. Any well played assassin can target 3/4 of the S tier and scare them off/kill them, while avoiding the fourth.
Before we decide why they’re only two steps apart, we need to determine what each tier means, and the discrepancy in power between them all. In my experience from fighting games (Including team based ones), S tier means you need to know everything about that character, know how to play against them since they are going to be picked the overwhelmingly vast majority of the time, and be prepared to play them at any time. D tier typically means almost unplayable/Dead on Arrival, especially when an S tier exists. S tier means 0 weaknesses (Old Galilea and Ambra) and D tier means no matter how hard to try, mastering that character will only lead to failure against someone semi-competent with an S tier, and that disparity does not exist in this game.
We all need to be on the same page as what ranking means what and why before we can formulate lists. That’s why + and - will be in many tier lists, since differences in power can be so minimal, but still do exist and must be acknowledged.
Definitely agree with this, and it’s exactly why I find there not to be an S tier. I don’t think there are any characters that are actually unplayable either, although I feel Deande, who you mentioned, is on the weaker side of the spectrum after playing her for a while.
I see what you are saying, but you are reading too far into this for where this list it right now. The rankings S-D are generally well understood by everyone here so far. All the + and - can wait until we have a general idea of where everyone belongs. Because it honestly doesn’t matter right now. I could have easily used numbers and this conversation may not have happened. But, for the purpose of this tier list, let’s go by relativity; in that S tier simply means the strongest characters in the game as compared to others while D tier means the weakest characters. Can we do that before tweaking the + and - of the tiers?
All right. That is agreeable
S tier should be reserved for characters considered broken. (Pre-nerf Ambra, etc.) A tier is characters that are above average and could warrant a slight change, while B is balanced and is considered so by every tier list I’ve seen. C is characters that warrant a buff, while D is for characters that will always be at a disadvantage even with a higher skill level. That’s in my opinion what the tiers should be and I think you should openly state that first
If Thorn is in the A tier, Marquis should definitely be in the A tier… He has a slow that can do dot, a passive that grants +50% dmg on the 2nd/3rd shot, and has traps which can do aoe. His learning curve is really not that high due to bullets doing instant damage if the trigger pull occurred on the enemy. He’s also an AD powerhouse and probably one of the safest Battleborn to play if you don’t want to die at all.
If you can learn how to use his ult properly, you can easily one shot any eldrid (except kelvin)
Deande and El Dragon should be A ! Seriously Deande is so underestimated, my enemies just ignore her and then I kill them . I don’t know why people suck with her?My first match I went 7:0 on meltdown, having the second most kills. Then I main El dragon so beware my splash. My best with him was 15:2 and 12:0!
I have to stop you there. Deande, in the right hands can absolutely change the game. As Alani with a Miko, my team got decimated. Now this is all circumstantial of course. Some of my teammates were morons, but she was the deciding factor in taking the win. Honestly it comes down to who is in control. Anyone can be a badass with anyone and that is the greatest part of the game.
I also feel some chracters are geared for PvP, while others are better with PvE. Atticus gets talked alot here as being the worst. I can solo any mission on Advanced Harcore and not break a sweat with him. His PvP game is sorely lacking though, especially in Incursion/capture.
I think Deande can be C tier, but would not choose her over Rath or Phoebe. Her potential is high, but even in the hands of high leveled players I haven’t seen much of an impact from Deande. I only speak from experience, but does anyone here think she is as good as Rath or Phoebe?
I believe this list is specifically for PVP. This game is currently balanced around PVP(as much as I hate it). PVE tier list would have Thorn in the S tier, for example.
I do find it funny when I play alone and pick Kelvin and the game says “Are you sure you want to play as Kelvin for this stage?!” Well, paraphrased, of course.
Also,
Rath should be higher. Either A rank, or the best B rank there is. Comparing him to Kelvin, I’ve never done a double take or had to rethink my approach when I walk into a fight against Kelvin. Against Rath I’ll generally ping him, make sure I can build a turret, and have my CC off cooldown(depending on who I’m playing). They both have the capacity to run away, but Rath can kill faster and sustain longer. Kelvin starts to snowball later on, but Rath will gear up faster than anybody else, and keep the other team from even making it to level 5.
I’m pretty sure nothing beats a level 10 boldur. Nothing. Pound for pound, he can take on anyone at that point. He gets bullied before 5, and does the bullying after 5.
Rath was almost A tier for me. Only reason I said B was because of how fragile he is. Also the thing about Kelvin, as rare as you see him, he is quite underrated. I consider him the hardest enemy to kill next to Boldur, but I can see why he can be B tier. I said he was A because of that absurd amount of increasing health, plus, the best and safest stun in the game with his freeze tag ability. And with Boldur, I debated whether I should toss him into B tier but the only questions about him is his early game and his lack of offense (which is obviously his character, a defensive minded character) but these are all great inputs
Boldur’s offense just needs about 9-10% attack speed gear to start (Sub 400 shard sword) at the start, and then around another 5% on hit from crit goggles or damages gloves (Get both if you’re feeling brave), and his offense is fine. Hell, you can shield cancel his strike and he attacks way faster (I recall hearing it’s great until 13+% attack speed) this has diminishing returns when you factor in stacked attack speed and the cleave swings/2x(?) damage mod on the last attack.
His greatest strength is engaging a wave and being able to finish the clear and push on despite whatever is attacking him, or just harass and hold enemies for a really, really long time lol. He has the best defense in the game to start, and it only gets better with the match, but his offense never stops increasing. He’s slow to start, but leveling doesn’t increase any character’s power like it does Boldur’s. He goes from decent tank to unkillable (When smart) powerhouse that no character can comfortably 1v1. I’ve been triple stunned and wailed on before, but I was raging so i just held the line at the enemy’s base lol.
Level 2 he can rage, help clear a wave, and keep on truckin’ and ragin’. Level 5 he can sustain, eat ridiculous damage, kill fleeing opponents easily, give chase given the exploding axes slow and his speed buff. He gets more base axe damage at 7 (At this point I think him raging with attack speed gear might be the most devastating auto attacking melee save a level 7 Attikus) at 8 or 9 his health pool can skyrocket with a well timed clear, and at 10 he can conceivably deal 300+ per hit with his axe.
That’s one rock solid character.
As for Deande. Well, I’ve seen her juggle a Montana to death and have had several of her clones wound me badly or just straight up kill me. I think when it comes to picking off an injured enemy, no one does it better. Rath is more a ganker/Duelist, but Deande rewards a clever mind more than pretty much any character.
I think WF needs a health buff, and the napalm choice needs to be given earlier.
Atticus is much better late game. He’s like El Dragon is that regard, and theres a mutation that makes him B tier.
As for Deande… really? only D? She deserves at least B tier. She’s tricky to use, but once you learn her mechanics, she’s near impossible to kill.
I just really don’t feel Deande has that potential. She just feels like one of those characters that you rely on your team to do well. I’ve gotten her to level 11, so I have a decent understanding of her although by no means am I amazing at playing her. She just feels like she’s lacking in the ability to swing a team of noobs like I can with Mellka and S&A, although that comes down to me I feel like. Although I like the idea of her character she just doesn’t mesh well w my playstyle
Boldur is better than galilea currently. Seriously. I’m a master of both (I didn’t play gal before all the nerfs). Most people don’t know how to play him, but while gal may get more kills, Boldur will almost never die and will hold the front line forever.
S-tier no longer exists.
Every character can be shut down by every other character now.
D-tier also doesn’t exist. The characters you put down have a high skill floor, but all have huge returns for anyone who gets past that floor. I just came out of a Quadrakill Attikus stomp (no premades and no Miko on my team either) and have a bunch of other fun games with him so far.
I’ve also seen Whiskeys and Dedes who have absolutely annihilated teams in their own ways due to the players knowing how to play those characters.
D-tier only applies to characters that are never going to do any good, so there is no D in this game.
Tier lists should consider characters are being played at their highest skill levels, remember.
The game tells me that with every character i solo story with. Getting over 100k points with Atticus on my first try of Sabotueur advanced hardcore. Silly game.