Update Coming to Borderlands 2 on October 29, 2015

This isn’t an appropriate forum to discuss the use of third party software.

Solo players aren’t meant to be able to take on raid bosses designed for non-solo player teams, by the definition of all the phrases used, yes.

There are plenty of games that reserve certain pieces of content for co-op or dedicated MP. The assumption that because you glitched the game to get X beforehand, that you deserve X now that the glitch has been fixed, beggars belief.

Gamers really don’t like being told they’re entitled. My advice would please don’t give people reason to call you such.

Nevermind the fact that people are mixing up symptoms of bugs with the bugs being fixed. The four-player glitch could’ve been the (compound) result of another bug(s) that had to be fixed for . It could have also been removed intentionally, sure. But nobody here is going to know that.

There is no “alienation” here. We got a patch years after the game was released that fixed a metric butt-ton of stuff that we didn’t need. And people are complaining because their exploits no longer work? That’s not alienation, that’s demanding bugfixes but complaining when bugs you like are fixed. Software development doesn’t work like that. Bugs are bugs are bugs.

Excuse the rantish tone if that’s how you read it, it’s not intentional. Just got my serious tone on :smile:

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Apologies for sounding entitled and for derailing the topic into third party software.

My original point still stands, however. The fact that solo players had to use a glitch that is now fixed in this newest update (brought it back to the original topic :wink: ) is evidence of poor game design. If solo players want to be able to take on raid bosses, they should be allowed to. This isn’t entitlement. This is me wanting to play the game that the designers created. The fact that I had to use a now-fixed glitch does not show that there’s something wrong with me (and the many other players who used the glitch) but that there’s something wrong with the game.

I agree that they should have fixed the glitch, but there should be some way for solo players to spawn Vermi. Vermi itself is a deeply flawed design.

I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with this.

How does it show there is something wrong with the game? The boss appears is an evolution based cycle, which is heightened depending on the number of players. It is meant to be rare, and raid bosses were meant to be fought by 4 people. Note the annoying reminder how “we will die” if we don’t, every time you take one on during a quest.

For this to be correct, Vermivorous’ design would some how affect the rest of gameplay. It is an optional raid boss. Exclusivity for features or bosses is an aspect of the game which is meant to feature a certain mode of play.

This thread, unless I’m mistaken, is mainly for discussion of the features of the patch. For further commentary, ideas, questions, comments or concerns perhaps you’d like to field them in the following thread where they’re being discussed;

Cheers

Well first off a RAID boss by definition is a boss that you need a RAID PARTY to fight, they are bosses designed for co-op. That being said they are also solo able, so gearbox has already gone above and beyond there.

But not everything in a game that is solo and co-op needs to be available to solo, its ok if a few things are limited to co-op. As long as thats not a huge part of the game. Right now we are talking vermi, you can spawn him solo its just harder.

I don’t get the issue?

Vermi wasn’t a raid boss though. Spawning him was a unneeded torture.

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But he is, he’s classed as one and as far as I know his health is miles above any standard boss.

Yeah, I disagree that Vermi should be spawnable by solo players. There’s no right or wrong there, just my opinion.

That said, the designers created the game with the intent that Vermi shouldn’t spawn (at least with any reasoable chance of success) for solo players. You are playing the game the designers created :wink:

I personally think that Vermi should be difficult to KILL for a 4 player team, but still spawnable solo. I believe the reason why he’s currently designed to be so hard to spawn solo is because the designers didn’t want the AVERAGE (non forum reading, clueless build joe with Green and Blue equips) to not accidently run into him during the story, nor get suddenly get swarmed by a bunch of SBA / UBA varkids. That would make a lot of people quit early before they had a chance to buy DLC.

I think the proper “fix” / design would be to have some sort of altar where you could donate eridium and it would start ejecting varkids love pheromones into the air, causing all varkids on the map to go crazy with lust, boosting their aggressive hormones until they start evolving at an accelerated rate to become the alpha king and queen.

For OOO, you could do something similar, like having a statue of Jack on the map that you desecrate in your favorite manner. Or do something a little more complex like get one of the skags to pee on it like one of the quests.

Unfortunately, that requires a LOT more implementation effort than tweaking a few values in a damage formula or loot table.

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This ^. Totally agree. And lets face it, even if you were a moderately above-average player with purple or orange gear, you (would|could) still take quite a pounding if you weren’t expecting it, or were still levelling up and didn’t have the skill points to spend into the requisite skills to survive. As evidence, look how many threads there are in the TPS forums about Deadlift, or right here about the Gluttonous Thresher or the final story fight.

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I just about peed myself the first time a Badass Pyre Thresher popped out of the ground in the Highlands on NVHM on my first playthrough. I can’t imagine what I would have done had I run into Vermi.

(For reference, this is the first CONSOLE FPS game that I’ve played more than a handful of times, so my aim was quite… lackluster on that first NVHM run.)

I hate pyro threshers. I know the one you mean very well - you hit it when you do the Tannis echoes mission. I was lucky the other day - it didn’t spawn immediately and, when it did, there was one lone hyperion bot for it to antagonise. I am not at all ashamed to say I simply ran like crazy.

Guys, please… it’s already hard as f*** to run into a Ultimate Badass without forcing him to evolve. All we’ve ever wanted was Vermi’s apparition to be more doable in solo, not impossible. Saying that “it was developed this way so deal with it” is a poor excuse. Legendary drop chance was increased, the Cobra was almost impossible to get and it was fixed, so I see no reason why Vermi shouldn’t get the same love.

Gearbox should look into it, buffing his spawn rate specially on OP levels where everyone is already geared to face him. Since we already got a Vermi weekend buff in the past it shouldn’t be hard to implement. Increasing his chance to appear by at least 0.5% per OP level would make everyone happy…

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The one and only time I’ve played 3 player co-op, the 3rd player was a bit underlevelled (2 of us were ~55 using at-level Greens and Blues, the other was ~52 using level 50 Legendaries). We had no problem getting overwhelmed by rampant varkid evolution when first entering Tundra Express. Yes, it all started from trying to light 3 on fire without killing them, but it got out of control quickly and took many deaths before we killed all of them. (They came most of the way up to the vending machines, so you started taking damage like 20 steps from the respawn machine.) We ended up with 1 UBA, 3 SBAs, 2 BA, and a handful of adults.

Since that’s my yardstick, I’d expect 4 player mode to be even more chaotic. And besides save & quit, I’m not sure how under-geared / spec’d players would handle it. Yes, I’m also aware the evolution rates are higher in UVHM than NVHM… or at least it definitely seems that way.

I too am arguing for a buffed up evolution rate for solo play, but I’d only want it to be intentional. Requiring the player to perform a certain action (or as others are pulling for: an options menu setting) to put the game into a sort of “farming mode” would keep the unknowing newbie from getting frustrated, quitting, and spreading bad press about your game.

Increasing the chance per OP level would accomplish the same thing since the only reason to go into OP levels in the first place is to explicitly make the game harder for yourself.

Killing varkid pods is the easiest thing of BL2, if you let badasses overwhelm you then you screwed up hard. They don’t even spawn as badasses or higher in Tundra Express. Anyway this is about Vermi and not how we play the game.

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Personally, I blame Mordecai, at least for the start of Tundra Express. (That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!)

If Vermi wasn’t supposed to spawn at all in solo play by design, as some people are saying, there wouldn’t even be a chance of spawning him in solo play in the first place. In my mind, the ridiculously small spawning chance for Vermi in solo play is a design mistake. I understand why they made it that way (so solo players wouldn’t be caught off guard by an unexpected spawn), but to me, it was terribly miscalculated. I mean, Vermivorous doesn’t even spawn in normal mode and it really isn’t that hard to stop varkids from evolving on any of the game modes. I’m not saying Vermi should have the same chance of spawning in solo play that he has in 4-player, just that the difference shouldn’t be as huge as it is. You have a difference in the spawning chances based on the game mode you’re playing on and you also have a huge difference based on the number of players in the game on top of it. That’s just too much.

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Well, either I got lucky, or this patch might’ve also fixed the problem of RTIs spawning at less-than-VH levels:

I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet but my “Lyuda” is now a “Lyudmila” :smile:

I wonder if there are other changes like that.

Mine is still a Lyuda.