It is remastered. Not redesigned. Noone asked them to join both games! So let them separate both games and not dwell on utterly nonsense!
The really need a broken heart icon for adding -1 to posts to vote em down. This thread would be soo voted down.
Iâm very against the idea of squelching opinions from others just because you donât like them. Let others read them, think about them, and make a judgement of them. If you donât like them, donât respond and give attention to something.
I think combining the two is a great idea, if itâs treated as a new game, and not HW1 just shoe-horned into HW2.
I love (the idea of) having 4 races to play as, even if two are really similar.
This is why HW1 Deathamtch and HW2 Deathmatch should use the original games stats. Same with HW1RM campaign.
Itâs HWRM MP that needs rebalancing and a design pass to be âHW2.5â
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Do agree. They should split out the campaign stats and lock them down (similar to how itâs done in the Supreme Commander series) and that way MP balance can a) be changed with the live build (notice theyâre going to use a mod to do this) and b) you can do different unit stats in HW1 Deathmatch, HW2 Deathmatch and the HWR unified mode.
Be neat.
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Yeah itâs very worrysome in their latest post how they say they have to be careful of how MP balance effects campaign.
Itâs very easy to separate the balanceâŚ
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Results as of 04:00 UTC 3/20/15
Poll 1: âWhich balancing direction should be taken?â
69% favor rebalancing to reflect HW1, while 31% wants Gearbox to keep doing what theyâre doing.
Poll 2: âHow would you feel if the current direction of adapting HW1 ships to use HW2 values and gameplay was continued?â
47% would be disappointed but still play.
27% would/will stop playing/wonât begin playing.
27% would be pleased if Gearbox kept doing what theyâre doing.
Total ~74% that would be disappointed to some degree if Gearbox kept doing what they were doing.
Poll 3: âHow would you feel if Gearbox moved the gameplay direction more to HW1 in the future and abandoned the balance and pacing of HW2?â
73% would be pleased by this.
17% would stop playing MP.
10% would be disappointed but still play.
Fairly consistent numbers being observed out of those who visit the forums, ~70% in favor of a more HW1 inspired direction of gameplay, ~30% in favor of HW2 direction.
Some of you are pointing out that this poll is biased to those who visit the forums and is non-representative of the playerbase as a whole. There is some legitimacy to this statement as obviously the vast majority of the playerbase doesnât visit the forums, but one must also keep in mind that the vast majority of the playerbase doesnât care about the game as much as we do. Forumers represent the hardcore, a key demographic in attracting people to the game through our praise of it and demonstrations via tourneys twitch etc, although they are not the most important in keeping people in the MP and may drive away people in the MP by relentlessly pwning them. We are however the playerbase that cares enough about the game to use a website exclusively for talking about the game, discussing what needs to change. While non-forumers may still care, they donât care enough about the game to discuss it on here and wonât care as much about changes as we do. Most of them wonât notice minor balance changes at all; a few of them wonât notice major changes.
Another thing to bring up is the statistics offered by achievements as to what people are playing.
As many people have completed the final mission of Homeworld 1 as have completed the fifth mission of Homeworld 2 and twice as many have completed HW1R mission 16 as have completed HW2R mission 15. People are playing HW1 more than HW2, and they should be playing the game as it was meant to be played back in 1999.
Comments about how these changes would affect the campaign brings up a good point. The HW1 campaign has already been butchered with HW2 gameplay and any gameplay changes should be added to it anyway, so thatâs not even worth discussing unless you want vanilla HW1 values put onto all of the ships in it (which you should, but thatâs beside the point). HW2âs campaign on the other hand is more debatable as to whether changes made to the game should be implemented into it, so Iâve created a new poll to guage how everyone feels about it here: http://strawpoll.me/3912485/
Iâve been working in a mod to make this possible since the game came out, and there is a very nice variable that they added, its called âGameRubricâ, with this you can have a ship show different stats depending on the Mode you are playing, unfortunately they just made it possible to differentiate between SP campaign, SP Skirmish and Multiplayer.
Iâve used it to have the original HW1 stats for the Campaign and have other stats and weapons for Skirmish and MP. Aside from that when balancing the races, I didnât like that they changed too much the behavior of the ships in order to make them as close as HW2 a possible, but this was unnecessary, and they ended screwing up the HW1 SP campaign experience for me with things like this:
That is insane.
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Holy crap who needs destroyers amirite?
Yeah âGameRubricâ is a nice thing added to the Lua that they will hopefully take full advantage of in the upcoming patch.
I donât think people that have something wrong with them and think HW2 is very well balanced should be alienated, though. ;x HW2 Deathmatch should keep the same original 1.0.5 balance. And âGameRubricâ should allow that. If it doesnât, well they can easily add something that does.
I mostly like the HW2 balance except for the Battlecruisers, I have always felt that they are way overpowered, but for HW1 ships and even less in the way they implemented it, that reminds me that around 6 months ago I told Brian to leave the HW1 ships stats as in the classic and give upgrades to them to make them match HW2 counterparts in MP.
Campaigns should always be left to feel the way they were originally meant to be, be it HW1 or 2, and Just as you said in previous posts, the 3 Gamemodes should have been a perfect way to separate the different balance modes, and if possible restrict races to them.
My approach in the mod was to give an option where you could choose the balancing at least for the HW1 races, It is possible but It will require some heavy work for me to implement it.
Oh and here is the link for the last .big file I made, Taiidans have some bugs in the Support and Assault frig, and the AI is not so good for the HW1 races.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8hRgOBo72rPMzE2VnNPVkdBc2s&authuser=0
I did say something like 70-80% HW2 balance myself.
HW2 tech and production is a huge improvement at a strategic level, but unrefine. There are still some major design issues in HW2s tech, especially the differences between Vaygr and Hiigaran being assymetrical in a way thatâs purely bad for Vaygr.
But I do like how in HW1, frigates and vettes, and heck even scouts, could always be relevant late game.
Also could be very interesting to see HW2 ships with a HW1 style of balance, maybe we will have a BC that have a maximum weapons range of 2KM, LOL.
innociv, you seem to be against the âidea of squelching the opinions (of) othersâŚâ if they disagree with you. If we all jump on the HWR is the greatest thing since sliced bread bandwagon, then our opinion is just fine.
I could not agree more with dragonPSA, the combo of HW1 and HW2 just sucks, that is my opinion so donât squelch it. I expect you will follow your own advice and not respond to my post, since it is my opinion and you should not make judgement of it. Since I am sure you donât like it ââŚgive your attention to something (else).â
Had I understood exactly what I was getting with this remake, these folks would not have got my money. Since a refund is not likely, and making Homeworld act like Homeworld again is not likely, I am stuck. But in my mind since I paid my bucks I have some right to post an opinion. And innociv, if you donât like it, then that is just too bad.
GoldwolfTWP
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Stuart, I think youâre asking the wrong questions. =)
Youâre asking players whether or not they want things to be moved more towards HW1 or HW2 without even defining what that means. For instance, HW1 simulated the ballistics of each shot; HW2 uses a random number generator. In order to âmove things towards HW1,â we would need to basically tear down the HW:Remastered engine and rebuild it from the ground up, which ainât gonna happen.
Instead, I feel we need to work WITHIN the Homeworld 2 framework to establish a balanced environment in which every ship has its place. To do that, we need to tweak existing values, create new weapon classes (if necessary, for specific ships), and, if necessary, add new mechanics (such as a reinforcement cost for Hiigaran and Vaygr strike craft) to bring the four factions up to par.
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You donât need to tear down the HW2 engine in order to do ballistics. Thereâs a workshop mod that adds them already, and Iâve incorporated it into my own mod, Homeworld Restored.
While true in terms of perfect recreation of the gameplay, the general game balance structure can be moved closer to HW1 just by shifting some of the numbers around.
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Witchcraft! =D
In all seriousness, thatâs fascinating news.
A penny for your thoughts: do you think we need simulated ballistics in order to achieve a balanced game?
No, we donât need âphysical ballisticsâ to make the game balanced, but a better probability RNG algorithm would certainly help. I wouldnât be against them if there is little to no cost, though.
There is a difference between explaining to someone why they may be misguided, incorrect, shortsighted, or what have you; rather than silently hitting a button that hides what they said from others.
Havenât I said twice in this thread alone that the HW1 DM and HW2 DM game modes should retain largely the classic gamesâ multiplayer gameplay?..
Donât⌠not read what I said then attack me over it?
One of the important things that is very important to mention is that when you balance, for example, a HW1 race to match a HW2 race, keeping the defining aspects of the race is something that needs to be kept in order to avoid alienating the classic gameplay, to explain it better:
In HW1 Ion frigates had the same weapon range as a Heavy cruiser and destroyer, and their speed was similar too, If Iâm going to balance the game against HW2, I need to keep those small details, they were very important strategically and define the way the race behaves during combat, and like those a there are several relations that should be kept when balancing, obviously GBX didnât took that into account and made a mess with HW1 races.
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Well actually destroyers were faster than ion frigates and cruisers.
To the extend I used assault frigates instead of ions, I preferred a fast moving force.
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