Urgent Character Balancing

I’m sorry, but this is starting to annoy me as well. I love Batteborn, but something needs to be done about it’s characters.

I’m tired of going online and playing against the “Healer/Tank” combo with Miko and any tanky character that deals ungodly damage. Galilea, Montana, ISIC, Boldur, and Kelvin. They have too much health and 3/5 of them have shields that can take the damage for them while Miko heals their life back up.
It gets even worse if Reyna or Kleese is there with back-up shield buffs and you’ve got yourself an unkillable juggernaut. It also doesnt help that Miko is too fast to hit with ANY attack. The term “It’s all about having fun.” does not compute here. This ISNT fun AT ALL to play against. There has been times the entire team gangs up and all that happens is the tank runs back for a few seconds, only to return like nothing happened.

Seriously, you’d think they’d fixed this from the beta, but nope. Gearbox/2K you guys/gals need to do something about this. You’re going to quickly and easily lose your fanbase if something isn’t done.

At the very least i have some suggestions as to what needs to be changed.

Miko:

  • The main issue is how fast he can heal health back. I understand a healer’s a healer, but Ambra isn’t anywhere NEAR that good in that department. And i don’t even wanna know what Alani will be capable of. So my suggestion here is that Miko either A. Gets a reduction on his healing factor. Or B. Moves slower while healing so that way he’s much easier to target and hit.
  • Another issue is that Miko can keep his beam focused on somebody with full health. That’s the second reason why the tank combo works so well, because Miko NEVER has to stop healing. So obviously, Miko should only be able to heal someone to full health and then it’s forcably cut from continuous healing. Not only that, be should only be capable of healing the same 1 ally for a certain duration. I would say 5 seconds at most before getting severed.
  • And lastly, there should be a cooldown period for when Miko can heal someone and for when the same person can be healed. Support stations DO exist. Make people have to rely on it more often. It’s there for a reason.

Galilea:

  • This one should be obvious. Galilea is basically the most overpowered character in the entire game. She’s a monster in 1v1 situations and has too many options offensively and defensively. To stop this, i feel that Galilea’s healing ability should be cut out entirely, It’s bad enough Rath is strong as he is, but at least Rath is killable. Galilea’s corruption deals damage AND heals. That’s a bit insane. At the very least, while Galilea is at max corruption, only the overtime damage can heal her and not through any other means (Except for gear benefits.)
  • One of the biggest issues is her shield toss and the shield overall. Someone trying to run away? “Shield Slash!” Someone about to their Ultimate? “Shield Slash!” It’s stupid that her shield toss stuns and for as long as 2 seconds. If she’s close enough, she can just slash your life away before you even recover and escape. The stun should be reduced to 1s and while the skill is on cooldown, she cant use it to guard afterwards. It’s bad enough it can take 1000 damage and only needs 5-6 seconds to recharge it’s threshold
  • And lastly, that melee damage needs to get cut down a bit. She’s way too hard a hitter.

Montana:

  • Personally, i feel that he needs to deal more damage, but his health is insane. He’s basically 3000 at the beginning of the game. ■■■■ calling him a tank, more like a behemoth. Montana should definitely be at least 2500, but deals slightly more minigun damage.
  • Addtionally, Lumberjack Dash needs to be fixed. I understand that he’s HUGE, but i’ve seen too many people just bump into the enviroment trying to either escape or hit someone. Reducing his hitboxes should fix that easily.

Rath:

  • I’m gonna go straight to the point and say it. Rath’s ultimate needs to get nerfed. It’s basically a free kill on every normal character. The damage should at least be cut in half to even out it’s destructivness.
  • Catalytic Smash is also an annoying issue. Unlike Boldur or Montana they cant immediately attack their airborne victim. Rath recovers faster before the victim(s) reach their knock-up height and come back down. Rath needs more recovery frames on this skill. That’s it.

Ghalt:

  • I haven’t seen him since the beta, but it should be said that this dude is a threat beyond belief. His scraptraps stun for 2 seconds and his hook can chain into it and guarantee - if not, an almost free kill. His scraptrap shouldnt detonate on victims pulled by the hook for a few seconds and reduce that stun to 1.5 at least on those traps.

Phoebe:

  • I’m sorry, but lets face it, Phoebe is as frail as wet toliet paper and she’s the only sword character without a spin in her attack barrage despite that fact that she has 5 swords! Rath and Galilea have sword spins, why can’t Phoebe? I know her weapon is a Rapier, which is mean’t for thrusting, but it’s hit boxes are a little disjointed and all of Phoebe’s skills deal virtually NO damage. If she’s gonna have 5 swords, make better use out of them then just 1 Skill that has no reach, accuracy, or damage.

ISIC:

  • This dude is crazy good if used properly, but the main issues here are his Rotating Wards and Omega Strike ultimate. Both need to be toned down severely. The Reflect Fire ability on Rotating Wards is too good and stops any ranged character from damaging him. Even certain skills are reflected like Oscar Mike grenade and possibly even Whiskey Foxtrot’s ultimate: Overdrive. It’s actually possible to hit above ISIC and avoid the wards, but only terrain advantage and characters like Benedict and Caldrius can do that with ease. Rotating wards needs to be able to actually start breaking while its in effect and can only reflect normal attacks and not skills.
  • Second and foremost Omega Strike is UNGODLY power. Especially in Incursion at destroying Sentries. Hell, ISIC can literally destroy a sentry by himself if left alone to do so. What needs to be done is that his Ultimate has a 30s time limit before forably deactivating. That’s all his ultimate needs.

Also, the last issue i have is the ability to build turrets on the enemies base after their first sentry is destroyed. NO. Get that out of the game ASAP. You shouldnt be able to do that period. Its extremely unfair and makes trying to fight back harder. All that happens is that everyone camps inside the small room with the support station and uses it to heal with they just pick at the sentry bot from above without fear. It’s unfair and unacceptable. Something needs to be done about this especially.

5 Likes

So, basically, everyone deals way too much damage and is way too powerful… in a shooter game with a really long TTK?

Umm, huh? You make it sound like every single one of those characters is so powerful they can simply annihilate the others…

And the level of nerfs people keep asking for around here are just crazy, we should be tweaking characters a few points at a time, not %30 percent nerfs across 3 different aspects of a character! coughambracough That’s how you wind up making a character completely irrelevant overnight.

where you officially lost me though, was when you said you want to give Montana less health… I mean, The guy that has to practically stand still while firing his gun? The biggest target in the game? The guy who’s role is to provide CC and take damage to help setup his teammates? That guy needs less health and more damage?

I think it’s time I stop reading the nerf recommendations.

14 Likes

I’m sorry, but I’m going to be pretty blunt because I already typed out a long explanation to a thread like this last night. Every character you’ve mentioned, barring Ghalt because I haven’t played against him, I do not see a problem with any of the characters at all. Yeah of course a Reyna, Miko, and a tank is going to be a problem for one two or maybe even three characters lol. What do you expect? That should be common sense, and also when they’re committing that hard to one lane with three characters, the team will be at a disadvantage objective wise. No characters you mentioned are OP, and I find it fairly easy to take out any of them with characters anywhere from Reyna to Orendi to Shayne and Aurox, and I’m not even close to a master at this game. People complain about balancing too much just because they find a player that is much more skilled than they are, or expect to win while outnumbered it just baffles me, especially that you consider ISIC OP.

7 Likes

I’d say Rath definitely needs some kind of damage nerf, at least. That dude can absolutely annihilate anyone he looks at. As for Montana and Miko, they’re perfectly fine as they are as far as I can tell. The healer/tank combo is hardly as unstoppable as you make it out to be.

The rest I can’t speak for, as I haven’t played them, but having fought and beaten them aplenty, I can’t say they awfully powerful.

The only character ive not been able to kill reliably in a tank healer situation is Galilea, she needs a little bit of a nurf (not her stun though, health or attack damage). Montana is a painfully easy to kill, to the point where i love being against him and hate him on my team. He’s sooooo big everyone just picks him off first. The rest preform fine.

2 Likes

Don’t buff Pheobe… please. I can’t even count how often she’s killed me.

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A tank, Miko, and Reyna SHOULD be nigh unkillable working together in concert. This is like walking up to a brick wall and punching it, then complaining it is too hard.

By trying to kill them, you play right into their hands. Instead, focus on having someone keep them occupied while the rest of the team runs rampant on the other two. Apply pressure elsewhere and force them to respond to the pressure. Attack at their weakness, not at their strength.

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Don’t turn this game into evolve…please. The amount of nerfs and buffs that kept going on forced me to stop playing. I gave up hope on that game as much as I loved it. Please don’t let it happen to Battleborn. Find counters, not everyone can play every battleborn perfectly either. I feel that most characters are totally balanced where as others could use a slight adjustment but nothing drastic.

8 Likes

Exactly what these guys said. Don’t waste your time trying to kill a beast combo. There are objectives and other lanes for a reason. Even in Incursion, take a side path and flank some minions or focus a healer.

Not every team you come up against is going to be built like a pug. Some are coordinated and shouldn’t be nerfed for working together well. And I don’t even have a team.

4 Likes

I must be getting lucky because I’ve run into all of these combos without too much problem. Everything actually feels really balanced without too much problems from anyone.

Then again I main Marquis and generally hang back and pick and choose my targets. However, I also play other characters, (Oscar Mike, Benedict, Miko, etc), and have yet to run into anything that seemed unfair. Gally is definitely not what she used to be and is actually laughably easy to kill now. Just don’t stand in her desecrate.

3 Likes

Phoebe is not frail if you know how to use her correctly. If you have the right build, her shield can be around 700 hit-points which can get doubled with an over-shield. Phoebe isn’t an ability based character like Rath; She is an active tank. the majority of her damage comes from her basic attack. You should learn how to play and counter characters before you complain that a character needs to be balanced.

Try learning to play Marquis or Thorn if you’re having trouble with Miko. Miko’s head is gigantic, making it super easy to land critical hits. It takes about 3-4 critical hits to kill a Miko from full health depending on what build and sniper you are playing. If you’re having trouble using these characters, I would suggest using these videos to learn the characters. Montana is a slow character so hitting headshots on him shouldn’t be a problem.

Marquis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FYiXVv2Co0

Thorn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qBcVrwWvVI

3 Likes

If miko is healing a tank concentrate on taking miko out first simple.

It isnt down to bad balancing when people are doing well by working as a team.

4 Likes

See, I completely agree, a slight nerf to bring her more in line with other character’s in her role. A “slight” nerf is rarely called for around here, everyone wants to see any character they have a hard time playing against nerfed into oblivion.

Another thing is that I notice a lot of people start off complaining about “this character is OP, when he’s coupled with this character, and that character, and this…” So, the entire enemy team built a comp around working together, and you can’t kill it with your team of two snipers and no tank??? (two 5 man teams mind you)

I had a great match last night against a galilea and a team built to support her (dear god they had Miko AND Ambra healing her and their Isic) we got pushed out early because we weren’t playing to our strengths, we wound up down to almost 40 points while I kept trying to get everyone rallied behind me, but we managed to hold. Once my ult came online, and our Miko finally plastered himself to my backside for a few, we started pushing back… There’s not much a Galilea can do to you when she and her two healers are both flying through the air from a few Montana Pop-ups and a Rath ulting her healers.

The key to beating her was using the plentiful CC we had on other characters, and using our Miko to give me the time I needed to slow them for everyone else to dump their damage. A good, co-ordinated team fight pushed them out, and not just once, but over and over again. We shoved them clear back across Echelon and won 40 to 2, as the game ended with me ulting up almost the entire enemy team while dumping mini-gun into their sentry (most epic moment I’ve had in the game so far)

But we had a team comp designed to support each other (2 front-liners, a pusher, an assassin, and a support) so we could rely on each other’s strengths. They had a similar comp, but put all of their eggs in the basket of hooking healers to Galilea and making her unkillable, so we used the tools on our characters to pick that apart, WHILE we were literally shoved into our first sentry room for most of the first half of the game.

I really hope a competitive side develops to this game to help actually balance characters, you can’t really make decisions off of a few days of someone roflstomping people in pubs.

7 Likes

Exactly this!

I love coming up against teams that are working well together its the way the game is supposed to be played and makes it 100000x more fun even if i lose.

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The most balance I’d like to see is instead of say “OH IMPOSSIBLE TEAM RAGE QUIT” crap is that if I’m Command Rank 15/16 I should be fairly matched with 9 other players in that range on a public server. Not My team is me, two level 2s, a level 4, and a rank 3 while the other team is all rank 40. That’s NOT fair. Like why can’t I get a good match like it was back in the beta when I got matched fairly with other rank 20s before I got Phoebe? Matchmaking is the bane of my existence.

3 Likes

Games only been out what…two days?

Probably not THAT many people hardcore leveling. Have to fill those queues eventually with what they got available. shrug

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You’re kidding right? I personally already know five people who got the game on the FIRST simply because they’re Gamestop managers and there’s like some stupid rule the store has that says “If you have a preorder and it’s already in then take it.”

Only one I slightly agree with is Galilea, shes a bit much especially if Miko is running around with her (I don’t know why but Miko is so slippery to me lol). The rest don’t really make sense to me. montana is SUPPOSED to be a tank…hence the high health and lower damage as other said he’s easy to kill because he’s a freakin mountain. But the issue in most games that people like to complain about is that they aren’t focusing the right targets at the right time…you see montana or another tank being healed by miko you have to kill the healer FIRST. Its common sense, see them with mad overshields, kill reyna FIRST. Killing ISIC isn’t a big issue either with the right know how you have to flank him. Phoebe is just fine the way she is. She goes in, does a crapton of damage and gets out. Thats it. She’s supposed to be a bit frail otherwise she’d be another Galilea which im sure no one wants. A lot of those complaints seem to be a lack of knowledge and most of us all are still learning.

1 Like

You know it takes weeks to balance out a matchmaking system; right?

And those people who had access early are screwing up matchmaking because most of those people who get early access are baaaad at the game, so in a limited environment, they wind up overinflating their trueskill level, which means you’ll get them on your team because the system thinks they’re better than they are. That’s just how matchmaking works.

I only agree with some things a think miko needs a SMALL nerf nothing it wrong the defender before the open beta there were the worst ones to play.
Montana only starts with 2200 not 3000 so yeah that kinda sets the tone of your post he also does good damage he doesnt he buff or nerf.
Dont buff pheobe she fine the way she is they nerfed her before the open beta dont undone good work.
Galilea doesnt need her stun taken away loads of character get a 2 second stun she needs a nerf but not her stun her life steal should probably get nerfed.
You want galt nerf yet you havent even seen him since the open beta he already been nerf since the first day release so there is you go.
Rath ult does need a nerf i feel he should him reduce speed when he uses it so you can get away and if he trapped you in a corner your own fault
Isic ult should have a timer i would say a 45seconds is fair i know he suffer punishment while in it such as reduced speed cant build but it should still have a timer.
You shouldnt be able to build when the sentry goes down i too agree it should be taken out.