Vault Card XP Economy

First off, the hotfix from yesterday(4/22) is a huge step in the right direction. We now have solid eridium sources other than M10 Ruiner, and world drops feel better.

The next thing I think needs working on is the XP for Vault Cards. In short, we need more. The best source of VC xp is M1 Ruiner, at 1,866XP/kill(that’s with a Borderlands Science XP booster). This is the largest single source of VC XP in the game, even more than Hemo and Vermi. Prior to getting level 100 on the card, it took about 7 minutes to gain one VC level while killing Ruiner on M1, and it only takes longer to gain levels. Also, the Daily Challenge increase was barely noticeable.

It’s my opinion that endgame activities(Slaughters, Trials, Takedowns, and Hemo/Vermi) should give a flat amount of VC XP per completion, and it needs to be at worth least 3 or 4 M1 Ruiner kills. This equals roughly 5,600-7500XP per completion. Even at that, that’s hardly a dent in the XP bar at later levels. We got the eridium from endgame Slaughters, now we need Vault Card XP to match. I would prefer tying the bulk XP gains to endgame activities over a blanket percentage increase for the simple fact that it motivates one to play in the endgame.

Another bump possibility is another Daily Challenge bump, coupled with adding more Daily Challenges; at least 5 in total, if not more(they really don’t take long to do, please send more, because they’re fun).

A sidenote to this, I’ve only received 7 Diamond Keys across my level 119 Vault Card(5.8%). It probably would have been less if I didn’t stock up on normal keys, and then using those to unlock all the cosmetics before level 60. I only received two Diamond Keys during that span where I was saving my keys, and naturally unlocking the card. I understand Diamond Keys are supposed to feel special. Nothing dramatic could be done with them, but maybe a slight bump in the chance of getting them, coupled with something like; every 25 VC levels, you earn two Diamond Keys. With the latter, at least you can say you’ll definitely get one at some point.

What do ya’ll think?

9 Likes

Diamond keys should have a base percentage of occurring when you open a chest and after each non successful occurrence the chance percentage should go up by a set amount, this will keep happening until a diamond key appears, then the the chances are set back to the original percentage and you build the the percentage back up, etc. etc. etc.

4 Likes

They should just simply let you get a guaranteed diamond key every 15 VC levels, it’s not too much and it would add another reason to grind levels. I got just two after 70 levels, I don’t really care about that, but I’d have gotten just 4 more keys, it’s not that much and the Diamond Armory would become a bit less rare to see

2 Likes

7 minutes? You must be on PC. Farming the same boss over and over on console is too infuriating b/c of load times so I don’t do it. I can’t kill one boss more than two or three times without getting bored beyond belief. So I go from map to map clearing enemies. It takes nearly 2 hours to get one VC level. Slaughter shaft gives about 1/2 or 2/3 of one level. Even doing the Scraptrap heap thing gets tiresome and still takes a while to level up.

My big problem right now is I really have nothing left to do in the game other than farm for XP to get enough keys to unlock the VC rewards and I’m bored silly. I just want a few diamond keys with the hopes of getting Guardian Takedown gear since I can’t complete the actual takedown on my own (I managed to get the Stinger and Asclepus from the diamond key room so I’m hoping the other items are there as well).

They need massive XP buffs to the daily/weekly challenges.

I agree with awarding a diamond key after leveling up a certain amount. I got 4 in my first 20 levels, then zero until I got to level 55 which is where I’m at now (so I got my 5th at level 55).

1 Like

It’s probably not going to be a popular take, but here it goes: I am not sure GBX intended VC to be a major source of gear. It’s a nice extra, in a sense of “here is another reward for your playing time”, but it’s not THE goal of the game, I suspect.

Lots of responses here (and in other threads) seem to approach VC (and Borderlands in general) as a purely farming exercise, a very goal oriented activity: you are doing something only to get a diamond key or a very specific gun, be it through farming or re-rolling anointments (which is just another type of farming, just distilled to its pure essence). In this case most of the time you are guaranteed to be disappointed, because that’s how RNG and probability works.

If you approach it from the other side: “I will play the game because I enjoy the basic game play”, then VC rewards in general, and diamond keys in particular become just icing on a cake. :slight_smile:

7 Likes

They don’t need to buff the EXP you get for it. However the EXP required to level it up should be set to a fixed value (like how it is for your guardian rank) as the needlessly increasing EXP requirement is the real issue here. Furthermore, dailies should rewards you with VC keys and weeklies should reward you with diamond keys.

2 Likes

Yeah, but Diamond Keys are paid content. That’s the big thing here, and it’s a big reason why people want to farm them; they want to feel like they get their money’s worth. Me personally, I do enjoy the gameplay; I have 2332 hours to back that up( which I feel is at least above average). You’d be hard-pressed finding a game with more polished gunplay, and a more diverse, unique arsenal to choose from; both with characters and gear. I also feel the gameplay is far from basic. I know people that are legitimately intimidated by this game.

I got my money’s worth, and enjoyed every bit of it. I want to keep doing that, and Diamond Keys are good motivator, and something to keep looking forward to. And I’m not suggesting anything too extreme, such as a Diamond Key with every weekly completion(all due respect to the person that suggested that). I would settle for a 1/3 of an XP bar for that. Every 25 levels is nothing to sneeze at, and I would like being able to vary my gameplay activities when it comes to gaining VC levels.

5 Likes

This way of thinking perplexes me for 2 reasons:
Vault card cannot be purchased separately , they are just a feature of the dlc,
in addition diamond keys were advertised from the start as and I quote : ‘super rare’.

There is nothing that is locked behind diamond key, every item you may want can be obtained elsewhere.

2 Likes

What’a perplexing about wanting to feel like you got your money’s worth? I don’t understand that concern.

And yes, people can go out and get items as they so choose…with the new nerfed drop rates. Granted, they are better than the global nerf from the hotfix before last, but they’re still lacking, ESPECIALLY in the Takedowns.

Also, if it was for any other game besides Borderlands, “super rare” might be a good enough excuse to sit idly by. “Super rare” doesn’t mean anything when it comes to Borderlands for the sole purpose of; if it can be farmed, it will be farmed. Call that the “Murphy’s Law of Borderlands.” People are still trying to get a 94% Sham to this day, for almost 9 years now.

I find it hard to believe that anybody at GBX thought that people wouldn’t try farming for Diamond Keys. That’s just not how this game is, and GBX knows that.

Also, the Diamond Key room is actually really cool. I want to go there as often as I can because it’s really fun. The music, the wall animations, and the final little materialization of whatever random thing you get when you’re done. I don’t want my experience there to be “super rare” if it doesn’t have to be. And that’s what I’m getting at that I don’t want to be “super rare;” the Diamond Chest experience.

1 Like

Technically, farming Ruiner on TVHM with no Mayhem on is slightly more efficient than on M1.

Either way, it’s a bit of a mess and challenges currently still aren’t worth it unless they are just something that you were going to do anyways or something that is compatible with farming.

Also, they really need to tie in Mayhem scaling with Vault Card XP. Easier content being more efficient than hard content is just stupid and also just feels kinda bad because if you normally play on M11 and specifically knock it down to M1 or TVHM to farm Vault Card XP that means you aren’t gonna get any worthwhile weapons that will actually work on M11.

An interesting approach to give players some additional incentive to do the challenges is if they not only rewarded a set amount of XP but also granted a temporary Vault Card XP booster that would last until you get your next challenge (so… Maybe 5% bonus for each daily and 10% for the weekly so you can improve your Vault Card XP gain by 25% if you do the challenges first).

3 Likes

Farming something advertised as super rare expecting to obtain it easily and then claiming it is not worth the money because the advertisement was true is perplexing to me.
You can say that you d like higher chance, but this monetary argument does not hold.

3 Likes

What are you talking about? Here is how they advertised the new gear in the sections of the trailer that were specifically about the Vault Cards:

“get your loot on”

“PROFIT”

“a BUTT LOAD of rewards”

“GET THAT BOOTY”

If you want to make the argument that these things should be “super rare” then you should stay away from what has been advertised.

look at the official site the explanation of diamond key if you don t believe me

And thus I did, here’s the section about VCs:

nothing about the gear being “rare” or “hard to obtain”, only that they are supposed to offer some “supremely powerful gear”. The only time I’ve seen them even mention something being “super rare” is on their VC quick guide which is not promotional material.

1 Like

Why do you keep talking about gear? my point was on the diamond key, and the information
that they would be rare , information which was available prior to release

As I was saying.

Because that’s what they were advertising the VCs with. Diamond keys however are not part of their advertisement.

Right. And you get gear with the VCs. They don’t cost Diamond Keys. The regular level-up keys do it.

There’s no mention of how easy gear is to get. There’s no mention of how many million should be able to farm. You aren’t owed anything in this regard. You can get it. You can get a fair amount of it before VC levels start being hard to get.

1 Like

Actually there is, the quotes I mentioned above all imply that getting the gear is rather easy when in actuality they’re by far the most demanding gear to farm for.

Where, specifically, does it imply this? What text are you using for the implication?

Because that’s the problem with implications in a nutshell. It’s what you’re reading into it, and while it may be understandable (to this day I have no complaints about people upset over Hemovorous), you need to state what it is that’s giving you the motivation here.

They advertised the VC system as something that’s supposed to give you “a BUTT LOAD of rewards” on a “permanent” basis. Now they didn’t specify a quantity but getting “a buttload of” something implies a rather lage amount, there is not much room for interpretation here, which is the polar opposite of how it actually turned out to be.

1 Like