If we’re talking Lore, the B2 VHs are stated to be far stronger than the B1 VHs, numerous times. The TPS VHs are stronger than the B1 ones and the B2 VHs kill several of the TPS VHs (Nisha, Wilhelm and a body double like Timothy - B1 VHs kill Claptrap, but he then gets upgraded by Jack).
So, B2 VHs are in the lead, but then they come up against B3 VHs. The Lore doesn’t state which are stronger and you don’t meet most of them. Zer0 and Maya appear, both of whom seem to be just as strong as B3 VHs, but then they don’t defeat bosses that you do, so maybe B3 are the strongest.
This is true, but unfortunately lore is vague (so makes for a less interesting discussion personally).
Theres also the fact that in lore, teleporters like Lilith are easily taken down by characters that need to get in melee range to leech, which makes no sense to me at all, so I was thinking of going by builds and combat strategies.
If we’re talking numbers, it depends on what level you choose.
If you take all VHs at level 50 (for fairness), I think the B2 and TPS VHs were the strongest, since they had the largest numbers for their damage output, health and shields. Between the two, I think B2 was the highest.
If we’re talking top level, B1 can go up to 61, B2 can go up to 80 (or OP 10), TPS can go up to 70 and B3 can go up to 50 (or M4) at the moment. B2 have the highest level and become the most powerful (in damage, health and shield terms) out of all of them.
Yeah, this was just bad writing. She surprise attacked Lilith, who should have known better than to let her, and kept her distance.
Due to game balancing and design considerations, I don’t think absolute numbers will be fair to games like bl1/3 etc.
Other criteria are also arbitrary, but attempting to give corresponding numbers for comparison seems like a better idea to me. Personally I like to consider all skills maxed, and %improvements for comparison rather than hard numbers, and that’s not possible – use multiple of base health to assign score to gear; but that’s just me.
Let’s break this down.
Lilith v Maya v Amara. Amara is the strongest siren lore wise, because she took on both of the Calypso twins and won, while Lilith was easily dismantled and got her powers stolen and Maya was flat out killed. Amara wins this, both because of the Calypso twins and she has the most powers.
Mordecai v Zero v Fl4k. Zero probably wins this, both in 1v1 and going against them both at the same time. Zero has the most damage, and while may not be the best sniper, he also has melee capabilities. Mainly, he has Many Must Fall. He pulls out his sword (or rapier) and stabs both Mordecai and Fl4k in the back with execute.
Brick v Krieg v Amara. Well, it comes down to Brick or Krieg here because Amara doesn’t have the ferocity to keep up with these two monsters (plus is probably targeted by both being shes a siren and immediately seen as a big threat). Brick v Krieg? Probably a coin toss here, but I’m gonna lean towards Krieg because he uses a buzz axe and took down Handsome Jack while he was at the height of his power.
Roland v Axton v Moze. Roland comes in last because he’s by himself, and doesn’t have the damage to keep up with the other two. Axton v Moze is closer than a lot of people think, and I’m actually going to lean towards Axton here. Axton has explosive AND corrosive fast balls to completely wreck Iron Bear, and he also has slag auto aim turrets (yes, plural). For the sake of argument, we’ll say Axton’s turret nuke doesn’t instantly kill the whole battlefield, two turrets that can be teleported to any surface isn’t going to be easy to deal with for Moze, even with hex shenanigans. Axton gets behind cover, nukes iron bear with fast balls, and throws out slag turrets for clean up.
Wildcards. Salvador v Gaige v Claptrap v Timothy
I don’t see Salvador losing here. Salvador is the most broken character in the franchise’s history. He can take the special effects from any 2 guns and use them simultaneously, along with insane damage from money shot and insane survivability with constant gunzerking (and a Moxxi gun). In fact, I think Salvador is so overwhelming here, I believe he wins versus any vault hunter, because Moxxi healing plus a DPUH gives him A.O.E. that no other character besides Krieg can compete with. He has the highest damage we’ve ever seen, and probably the highest survivability we’ve ever seen too (in competition with Timothy). He has interfacers too, for single target dps in case some c e r t a i n vault hunters don’t want to go down. But, I’ll continue with the ranking here. Salvador wins this, Timothy comes 2nd because his insane, innate survivability with bonkers damage, Gaige comes 3rd, because she can ricochet anarchy bullets in peoples faces, and Claptrap because unless I’m missing some piece of lore, his action skill takes quite some time to activate and could end up just giving him a water floatie.
In BL1 v BL2 v BL3 vault hunters where each games vault hunters team up against the other two? BL2’s takes this. Almost easily. BL2 has Salvador which I’ve already been over, and probably more importantly Krieg. Once the first guy goes down, Krieg bloodsplodes him to take out everyone else. Maybe Lilith survives. Maybe Zane survives with his barrier. Maybe Moze survives because she was in Iron Bear. But those 3 aren’t going to stack up to Salvador, Maya’s phaselock, Krieg now rampaging, Zero backstabbing them, Axton’s slag turrets, and Gaige’s ricochet bullets. BL3’s probably comes in 2nd, because Zane can throw out his dome to shield his team (and amp their damage) from all the bs coming their way from BL1’s team. Lilith by herself won’t match up to all 4 of the opposing team. And gets taken out shortly after she enters the dome
I agree with mostly everything you’ve said, and I made a similar post earlier up.
With respect to Lilith vs Maya vs Amara, lore might say that, but lore also says that Lilith – a pseudo teleporter with invulnerability - was leeched by slow moving characters that need to get in melee range to win. So if the win is by character stupidity, I don’t think we can consider that giving a win to Amara directly.
In the hands of an efficient player, and looking at builds and gear, I can’t see Amara winning a majority, but she can win a minority – say 2/10 times against the other two (IMO of course)
Also for Salvador, we should not use builds that rely on glitches to function as they are specific to the game and unintentional – but even so, a stacked Gaige has more than enough damage and autoaim.
A water floatie that can bounce Sal’s bullets back into his own face, to be fair. =]
Assuming we’re going by character badass-ness, I’d suggest the following:
Lillith as Firehawk can teleport or phasewalk, so she does so, avoiding the fight and jumps back in to take down the winner. Maya faces off against Amara, who can throw a phasecast her way or phasegrasp her from a distance. Up close, she’d go for phaseslam, though. If Maya phaselocks her first, she’d probably win, otherwise, Amara takes Maya down. So, Lilith jumps back in with an explosion or a powerful melee strike, followed up with an smg assault, wiping out whoever was left. Teleporting/stealth beats the other siren powers.
Roland drops his Scorpio turret and crouches behind it. Axton throws his 2 double Sabre turrets with shields and slag, deploying both on walls/ceilings where they rain down on Roland behind his cover. He’s down and out before he can pose too much of a threat. Moze tosses out a half-dozen grenades and hops into Iron Bear before she gets wrecked by the turrets up above. I think she’d ignore the Sabres and trust in her armour, so she focuses on Axton. He’s faster, but she’s more powerful and probably takes him down before his turrets wear down IB. Even if IB gets beaten, she hops out and follows up with more grenades and powerful explosions.
FL4K and Zer0 would go invisible straight away. While Mordecai sends out Bloodwing/Talyn, he’s doomed with no way to take out his invisible enemies and no way to hide. Either Zer0 or FL4K take him out, and then it’s a stealth fight to the death. Whoever uncloaks first will be first to die. Assuming Zer0 took down Mordecai, his stealth is renewed and he outlasts Fl4K, otherwise Fl4K has 2 shots left and uses them to take Zer0 out when he reappears.
Brick unleashes rockets and shotgun blast, before dropping them and grabbing his hammer (or just fists). Krieg waits until his health is low, while piling the fire damage onto Brick, then turns into a badass psycho, unleashing his buzzaxe. Hammer vs buzzaxe, I think the buzzaxe wins, especially with explosive throws, but Krieg may struggle with the voices and wind up hitting himself instead. Assuming he goes down first, he still has a chance to take Brick out with Light The Fuse.
If Amara joins the fray, she’d throw down some elemental damage, following up with a phaseslam and then powerful elemental melees. Unfortunately, that doesn’t work against Krieg who has already set himself on fire, so she gets a buzzaxe to the face and goes down, too.
Salvadore pulls out a pair of weapons, firing wildly at anyone and everyone. Gaige sets Deathtrap on him and pulls out a shotgun full of anarchy, mostly missing but ricocheting into everyone else anyway. Claptrap activates vaulthunter.exe and probably copies Sal (based on the conditions around him, with so many badasses, but it’s also random). Timothy sends out his Digi-Jacks. Claptrap can’t copy Sal as well as Sal can, so he goes down. If Timothy and Gaige can find cover, they can take Sal out, otherwise they’re both doomed. Assuming they manage to take Sal down, Gaige uses anarchy and ricochets to beat Timothy.
OK I am going to take my go at this one.
While Roland and Moze are deploying their turret/IB, Axton quickly sprays them with slagga. From there he longbows nuke turrets to each respective opponent.