[Video] Tii/Kus Open swarm

This video demonstrates the Ball -n- Chain swarm with HW Races. I’m not sure how or if a HW2 race can beat this with-in a 20k distance. HW fighters are not as bad as most believe.

Let me know what you think, or if you can think of a way to defeat this.


AH thank you, I’ve heard about this but putting it in video really shows it.

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Have you tried it against someone rushing platforms from the beginning? I can see it potentially working as HW2 can get the plat facility up before you get any tech and have 3 or 4 built by the time you start producing interceptors.

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I have not, but I don’t think it will be much different.

We ran a few follow up test tonight with things like lvl 1 fighters for HW2, better management from HW2 doing things like pulling the fighters back to the back side of their carrier thus breaking the chain, and vs vaygr with FTC. Results didn’t look near as one sided as the video in the op. Peg and I were both recording. I sent him my raw footage and he will probably put up a much better video to expand this discussion.

Good video. It would be nice to see it on shield vs a skilled hw2 player. It’s hard to tell how OPed it is vs a random (I’m assuming) player online.

That’s been the most successful approach I’ve used with HW1 races. I’ve generally split my bombers out into their own group. Bombers target modules and collectors while the other strike craft (I like to tech up to corvettes) keep their strike craft busy. As long as you keep building and keep coming, there’s not much they can do.

all hail the power of rata =)

Ah that’s a typical fighter rush. Did these myself it’s pretty much the only moment where hw1 races can truly point with the current balance… Rush and hit hard or risk losing in late game to bc’s etc…

It still doesn’t work all the time an experiened hw2 player would countered this better and also not wasting single squad after squad like that… But yes it’s still interesting seeing it… Hw1 are early slightly superior… Hw2 in lategame… Needs to change equal chances throughout the game

I do know that this strategy does not work against a HW1 player - they just go defenders instead of bombers and are basically invincible unless you go GW + Frigates.

One more thing - has anyone checked the DPS of HW1 interceptors versus HW2 squads? I notice that one HW1 interceptor has more “firepower” than an entire squadron of HW2 interceptors, or is that number per fighter?

Probably a torp rush would counter this pretty good. When i tried it vs hw1 player who was building only bombers, he didn’t stand any chance at all

Torp Rush stands no chance vs this IME. Flaks near useless also. The HW2 player simple cannot get enough out fast enough.

Reminder: this is very distance specific. If the engagement distance is increased to 20k the effectiveness drops off significantly.

I have few other recordings of test ran last night, but it is in no way all inclusive of every option. What I will do is upload them raw to YouTube without commentary to save time so we can have examples of various counters to discuss. If you have a counter idea you’d like to test and have posted let me know and I’ll organize the game with you.

This afternoon I’ll upload the test I ran with peg with him going full on double Fac fighters with FTCs. That one is a really good display of the HW2 fighting back hard but still ultimately losing. Peg did a great job of trying to draw my fighters into a more advantageous position for me causing me to have to work harder on my management over just simply targeting down 1 squad at a time. He also brought his FS into the center to amp his production. The fight took way longer than 10 minutes, but ultimately still failed. However it did become more of a skill vs skill than strat vs strat, meaning I could’ve easily lost at any point had I not kept up. I think Peg and I are pretty even, so a lessor player than me vs a stronger player than Peg would’ve probably lost in the end. If this is the case, then there is a much better chance for balance then I represented in the Op video.

Rata is the man!

The player was @amsajuja. Not a random.

I wouldn’t do this vs a HW race. Not with this build.

That is a great point-man strat in a team game. It allows HW2 allies to tech up and help just in time.

Watching rata do this as an ally is great fun.

Having rata do this to me in a game… not so much. :smile:

Doing it myself is a cast-iron biotch of management. I need younger fingers and double-strength ginkgo biloba to keep up.

The patch will alter this a bit, but I am guessing that it will make this tactic more powerful, once its practitioners adjust to the changed circumstances.

As a primarily Hiigaran player, I can attest that having a swarming HW1 ally is a great early-game cushion.

correct, the sheer amount of fighters will take the subsystems before the seoncd torp is down, and the problem with the first run is that i was trying to dock to save low health squads

best way to fight back was to get levl 1 upgrade on the interceptor and just queue, micro them and dont try to dock them (just let them die) the problem is that in the long run the attrition suffered by the HW2 fleet and most importantly the lack of secondary build queues denies the HW2 fleet a chance to tech up

Second example video. This is the one I mentioned earlier vs P3G3SU5. He went double fighter face, FTC, and tried a few times to pull my fighters behind his carrier. It was a much longer fight before I could wear him down. Rewatching this one makes me thing the problem doesn’t look as bad for the HW2 races as I suggested in the Op.

No commentary on this one. Enjoy the music.

Imagine this with researchless controllers and faster carriers :neutral_face:

It would barely make a difference. As it is now the game is over before you need a controller and HW2 rushing a CC is auto-loss against a torp rush let alone ye olde ball and chain.

Imagine this against platforms which actually work and fighter AI which makes sense.

Hey are you for a test vs Plats? I am available now.

Me and xplayer have lost to this tactic in Kruxxen’s team tournament. It’s kind of overwhelming.