Was Fight For Sanctuary always the Plan to Bridge BL2 & 3?

Without Fight for Sanctuary the story of BL3 would need to cover the following issues:

Sanctuary not being Crimson Raiders HQ

The Raiders having any connection with Vaugh

The Vault Key being lost

The formation of the B-Team

Ellie inhereting the Catch-a-ride system

Which makes me wonder if early in development there was a completely different opening sequence to BL3?

What if F.F.S. was originally set in BL3 and Maliwan replaced the New Pandoran Army?

Instead of their cave-in backstory it was just the opening sequence where they take over Sanctuary, and that becomes the a base of operations for them on Pandora, or… they just destroyed it, forcing
the Raiders to meet Vaughn?

And what if instead of a plan infection, the “infected” Psychos that spawn in TVHM is what infected the Backburner (and that infection was caused by a supply Dr. Benedict’s Gas the C.O.V. scavenged)?

So at that point the narrative would switch to trying to retrieve the key as it plays out in BL3, with it being at the Holy Broadcast center?

It just struck me that I seriously doubt adding FFS to BL2 was always the plan (though I had thought using a next, now last, gen addition to all the games with be great marketing).

I have people say BL3 switched engines during development, so it makes sense that they had upgraded UHD to textures for BL2 & TPS, and that they would have the New Pandoran Army soldiers who have similar mechanics with their backpack crit spots and elemental focus etc.

Maybe FFS was as much UE3 BL3 components as it was remnants of the Luxy’s Cruise DLC for TPS???


Whether it was planned or not, for me it succeeded. When it came out I hadn’t played Borderlands in years. FFS hooked me back in and had me a) enjoying BL2 throughout the summer, and b) caught up with the characters and excited for BL3.


My guess is that FFS as a bridge between BL2 & BL3 was not planned from the beginning but evolved out of necessity. But as to whether that necessity was due to a natural, unbroken development progression or because of a radical change in course during the development of BL3 (change of engine, change of personnel, realization that the original design concept was not going to work, etc.), I cannot begin to postulate without more concrete data. :thinking:

But interesting topic nonetheless! :slight_smile:

I wonder if in pursuing the answer to the topic we might discover the answer as to why there is no Bridge between the BL:TPS final cutscene and BL3? It is like that whole cutscene never happened as nothing about it has been acknowledged or referenced in FFS or BL3. Where is Athena? Where is the Watcher Guardian? What happened to the whole “War is coming” warning that the watcher told the VHs? If it meant the COV, then why was Athena not involved since the Watcher said the Crimson Raiders would need all the VHs they could get?

Side note - if the Watcher’s scene is still canon, then why are there only 4 VHs in BL3 instead of 6? :thinking: After all, the Watcher itself suggests that more is better! :grin:


I have a feeling BL3, & 4 eventually, are built for PS5 & X specs, and the development time for the next game will follow closely, and maybe address the Watcher if we assume the host of the Trials is not meant to be it’s stand-in.

As for Four Vault Hunter, there are only Four playable, but the most NPCs you had supporting a player on combat previously was 3, not counting Rocko’s Modern Strife. In BL3 the Raiders and “Jakobs Resistance” back you up. From start to finish you have:

Lilith, Lorelai, Zer0, Ava, Maya, Brick, Tina, Mordecai, Baylex, Clay (and his Rogues), & Typhon who fight along side the four main Vault Hunters.
Other Crimson Raiders like Ellie and Tannis are helping hunt the Vaults too, but just for combat alone (11). They did snub Axton, Salvador, Gaige, & Athena initially (Krieg being in echoes amounts to something), them being characters we assumed were still alive. But I get the feeling they were moved aside so Vaughn, Rhys, Lorelai, Wainwright, Clay, & Typhon could have their time to shine.

How much bigger or cumbersome would the game be trying to work them all in? But then again we cover so little of the map in game there was always room to say they were just on the other continents of xyz planet.


Marcus’s walkout animation from both games is very similar

as is Brick’s introduction cut-scene sequence story-mission role/ battle scenario

Mordecai’s fight scenario (to help you get into a locked down stronghold that requires Tina Blow the doors off) is vaguely similar.

Tina’s mission objective (get ingredients, blow open a door) are vaguely similar.

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I don’t have the exact source, but as far as I’m aware, the fight for sanctuary was made of repurposed assets from the cancelled Borderlands the Pre-Sequel dlc (which was cancelled when the studio went bankrupt).

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Yes the Luxy DLC. The question is more a matter of timing and intent. The elements of the Presequel DLC didn’t go into the Vault Key aspect and whatnot.

A lot of the mechanics are similar, from the air-dropping of Bandit Mobs on some maps vs. the use of elemental soldier types and “Heavy” versions of them with Backpack crits on others.

The spores buffing damage like Radiation DoTs, and the final Boss being a giant mutated enemy, to Lilith using all her might to save the day in the end while everyone watches from afar.

I am wondering if they used a little bit of the Unreal Engine 3 version of Borderlands 3 they abandoned too?