We don't know what we don't know - a reminder

As I read these forums, I’m struck sometimes by very legitimate criticisms…but it also occurs to me that there are things that we may be jumping the gun on.

The developers know what is coming and we do not.

That’s not a blanket defense for them on everything (Anointed Militants, the bugs, the loading times for console players etc. cannot be defended against by this).

However, take slam. Slam is mostly useless except for Skywell, as we get very little low gravity. But if the developers know that we’ll have one or more DLC that have low gravity, and that they’re going to put Oz kit like modifiers on artifiacts, then slam is no longer mostly useless.

Same for slide. What if an ice planet is coming that continues momentum, and slide is amazing to use there?

Those are concrete examples. More abstract things might be characters. For example, I was really moved by, and cared a lot more about Roland’s death after the last DLC in BL2 (not counting the Lilith/Sanctuary expansion) with Tiny Tina’s handling of it. Characters and events in BL3 are not yet “wrapped up”.

Even Mayhem mode. Yes, I agree it needs tweaking. But the developers probably have an idea of how they’re going to roll it out (i.e. what the max mayhem number will be and when on the calendar they want to drop each next mode). We don’t know if MM4 is supposed to be the hardest or if they’re planning to go up to 10.

Point is, while the base game is finished, the game as it will be remembered (i.e. when all modes are out, when max levels are out, when all DLC is out) is not yet finished. We’d do well to remember that, IMO.


I know I never slam or slide. I know I avoid any relics that use it. Not part of my game. Knowing what it is intended for is moot.


You could be right on this point, and I genuinely hope that you are, but there are many data points to contradict this point… The easiest one is to look at the reactionary and heavy handed approach that has been taken to nerfs in this game. The Dev’s might know details like DLC low gravity rooms, but they seem to be constantly catching up on core game mechanics.

Remember the nerfs in September and October when the ONLY “end game” content was a few Circle of Slaughters on MH3? Remember how Iron Bear and FL4K’s pets couldn’t damage anything in MH3? If the devs were looking at the big picture we wouldn’t have ever seen things like this… unfortunately, the evidence indicates that the devs to this game are simply reacting to YouTube videos…


I’m not saying that it is the intent that matters. I agree with you that they are moot currently.

I’m saying they may become awesome.

Personally, I am saving relics that offer them in case they do become relevant. I have not used them, and don’t plan on using them - but they might end up being awesome in future situations I haven’t yet encountered.


It’s a valid Donald Rumsfeld reference. “known knowns and known unknowns”

I’d like to see some visibility of patch deployment , expected dlc roadmap ( ot necessarily what…but when)

When particular content is due - again not what but when.

Trouble with that however is you paint yourself into a corner with public deadlines and are held to task if invariably you are late with delivery.


Oh, nerfs and core mechanics I think generally fall under “what we DO know”.

Again, I’m not offering any defense of their bugs. I also don’t think they have a great master plan regarding balance.

I think they have an outline for some big picture things that may well surprise the community.

we can hope.

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I’m glad we can slide because of evasiveness but given how lame the antifreeze mod is I don’t think the devs had a goal for these anointments outside of creating build variety. Unless Zane gets a new tree based around sliding and jumping, but he can somewhat do that with the current gear, or we do get a new piece of gear that can enhance slides and jumps with thrusters.

That was honestly a good approach to balance the guns in the game, but shows just how terrible their channels of communication are because most of the dozen weapons were actually not preforming as intended(like the 4th lyuda bullet) but some were right and still over preformed like the 4th crossroads bullet.
Another early example is how the anointed were immune to cryo damage when it should have only been immune to a full freeze.
I imagine a few headless chickens hold leadership positions that they shouldn’t but that’s just an opinion.

I’m not sure we would agree on what ‘mostly’ means. I might say that it can be used mostly everywhere - very few places have no height difference that can be turned into a slam. Source: am a serial slammer.

That said, if you’re on PC and don’t care for slamming, I’ll take whatever horrible-yet-awesome slam-based relics that you’re all nice enough to put in the mail. :smiley:


Not saying anything until the base game and DLC’s are out is a sure-fire, guaranteed way to make sure nothing gets changed. At that point, GBX will have sold all their content and moved on… game over.


Another example, storywise:

Many have said (and I agree) that it doesn’t make sense for Lilith to give Sanctuary to Ava.

However, when she does so, she says “be ready”. Then you go to her room, and Tannis says something to the effect of “well that would mean”…and implies that Lilith knew this (or something like it) was going to happen.

So, I’m saying it’s possible that the decision did make sense to give Sanctuary to Ava --because of what Lilith (and Gearbox) know is coming next. (And if they do a good job, it’ll all make sense when to us the dust has cleared and we have all of the DLC content).

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I agree with your major points here. We don’t have the major picture to look at and probably won’t have that for some time. For me, that’s okay, I’ve got plenty of things to do besides stir up nonsense on the forums.

However, It disappoints me to see streamers playing bl3 and rigorously bashing it the entire time. It sounds like a broken record at this point, “rare spawns” “better anointed gear” “this gear is trash” “was this ever tested??”

It pushes a narrative that this game is terrible. It just gives more bad press, and bad press is what’ll end the Borderlands series because you can’t make money if nobody buys it because the streaming community said it’s garbage.

Anyways, that’s my opinion, based solely on listening to streamers for a week who had over 100 viewers.


As a long time player of the series, I, for one, can comfortably say, it might be time to end it. If this is the case, it’s not because of “bad press”, it’s because of bad games. I don’t think they will end it because people continue to like, follow and obey, but from a quality perspective… it might be time.


I think you give gbx too much credit sure they might have some vague idea but so far except with the dlc alot of it has ranged from ok to poorly executed.

Im genuinely amazed that someone likes slamming and Slam related relics. To choose a slam relic over Elemental Projector, Ice Breaker, Cutpruse, Snowdrift feels very odd to me. To have yourself open for an attack after that excessively long and awkward recovery period, to do miniscule damage, having to actively search for a higher ground, awkward vaulting/unvaulting mechanic screwing up the slam. The times when it looks like you should be able to slam, it just doesnt happen, maybe because you pressed the slam button too early. Only times I use slam related stuff is with a combination of Cutpurse, since it will refill your magazine (like launch pad). I can see slam as being an interesting mechanic for super casual people that dont go beyond TVHM, no mayhem. But to each their own I guess. For me slamming is an awkward, unrewarding gimmick and I personally would wish to be able to have an ingame menu where I could remove anything slam related from my droptables so I never see that stuff again. Same goes for many other legendaries like Woodblocker etc.

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Depends on what you are optimizing for: killing efficiency or ‘fun’. Subjective stuff…

Also - one might not even have these other things you mention, while slam/slide relics seem be raining from the sky. Some folks play BL in “use what you find” mode, and not farm much.


The ‘abstract’ idea is what has actually been part of what I do not like about BL3 as much as the previous. Do not get me wrong, the Jackpot DLC nailed it and is my second favorite DLC behind Dragons Keep. However when it boils down to the main story my rankings go: 1) Bl2 2) BL1 3) BL3.

BL3 is a cluster and former shell of what it used to be story and humor wise. Sure they can wrap the stories up in the DLC’s, the first two games didn’t have to.
BL3 tries too hard to do two things,…
1st off is to offend nobody (except maybe streamers?)
2nd is that they tried waaaay to hard to be funny when the other games just made humor flow.

It’s a very good point.

I used spark plugs in Impound Deluxe to round up enemies, zap their shields and kill them quickly on M4 TVHM, as well as airborne bonus dmg anointed gear.

Also with the low gravity there the slam effect allowed me to time my descent. Which could have helped me dodge shots, but who knows, I use a Transformer.

I didn’t even get put into FFYL and I had a great time. I get that you don’t find spark plug or any other slam artifacts fun, or viable and that’s fine. I had a great time using it in and yes, in Mayhem 4 TVHM.


It’s all Claptrap’s fault. We should be hating on him. Since he set Sanctuary on fire, we had to vent the cargo hold and lost the jet packs that would have made slams great. Maybe we’ll swing back around and pick them up in a future DLC. Who knows.