We get it, but chill on the “representation” in video games

plenty of others. They should be fine. Thats the wrong attitude. Wrong way to deal with someone feeling underrepresented.

You gotta be able to keep up here, there’s a lot of nuance. You made a claim that the hyper masculine archetype of a whiskey drinking, cigar smoking whatever guy was the “ideal” male hero when you said

Whose ideal is this? That’s not different from saying, “anything else is incorrect,” because it’s not ideal for everyone. Maybe to you, but that’s not my ideal and I’m not going to accept it as such.

Steve Irwin, Mr Rogers, and Bob Ross were all phenomenal on the Epic Rap Battles of History and I do look up to them.

But most men I’ve met in the real world are low key or high key terrible :slight_smile: that’s just my experience

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heck no, as I said before Borderlands is fine as it is. I mean, it’s Borderlands, not some important meta-narrative for society. Although I do want a diamond pony…

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That’s utter nonsense. There’s no “very important type of person” in anyone’s life. Everyone in our lives is important as they are, and no one is hurt by not having a “type of person” in their life.


my experience is most people are low key or high key terrible regardless of twig and berries lol.

echo chambers are good for society then?

I’m really not bothered by it. I didn’t write the game, I didn’t write the backstory for the characters I simply play it because I appreciate the universe the people who did write it created. How they chose to develop their characters is theirs alone to control. Besides if I did write it I would certainly appreciate payday more than I do now.

What’s with people in this thread misrepresenting what I’ve said?

Where did I say that?

“no one is hurt by not having a “type of person” in their life.”

It’s important to have as much variety of positive influences on your life as possible, only having a very narrow band of specific positive traits in your life is not optimal for you to grow to your full potential much like only hearing a narrow band of opinions echoed back at you is not optimal for your growth.

Well, they are pretty dumb and whiney. Rhys has taken a big step back from his tales days, Vaughn has basically become that cow from back to the barnyard (also voiced by Hardwick) only dumber, Bricks answer to everything is punching it or punching it harder. Hell, even Wainwright (whom I love btw, by far my favorite of this game) will gawd damn enjoy his puzzles over being efficient.


This is still seriously steamrolling? I’ll say it a third time, WHY does the sexual orientation of NON-PLAYER CHARACTERS have anything to do with the immersion of a game that solely involves shooting and punching people/things?

This ain’t Mass Effect or Dragon Age, romance options don’t even exist in Borderlands let alone have any impact on story or gameplay. If that DID factor in, I might very thinly buy the argument that its immersion breaking if all the romance options were gay or even bi only.

But it doesn’t factor in. You don’t get a “Hammerlock is gay” debuff after learning he’s in a relationship with a man and suddenly all male enemies deal an extra 20% damage to your character. The sexuality of the secondary characters and even the main ones also has ZERO bearing on the way the story plays out.

Everyone here since I left the threat last night has been drawing up representation as an issue, but that’s not the OP’s argument. He’s talking that having so many gay characters just existing in the game “breaks his immersion”, yet neither he nor anyone else here has given any evidence as to how that’s a factor. Playing as Roland in 1 or Axton in 2, what bearing did their sexual orientation have on their gameplay or on the story? Or Lilith or Maya for that matter? We don’t even know the sexuality of the current Vault Hunters, only the gender identity of one because they’re a robot. So if the main player characters don’t affect it, how do the secondary ones? Not one person here has given any evidence to a logical answer to that question.

This is a FICTIONAL universe with standards that don’t apply to the real world population and values. We don’t have a literal sickness that makes all the people afflicted crave eyeballs and building meat bicycles out of their victims. We don’t have people that randomly inherit cosmic alien superpowers that then become seen as potential property for mega-corporations. Applying your real world comfort zones here would be literally impossible at base, since you’d be killed by Psychos or the local wildlife long before you could feel put out by someone’s sexual orientation or anything else.

Oh right, the OP also wanted to know why Moze “can’t look good” and can only have manly haircuts, but that’s not even an argument, just nitpicking cosmetic choices that again have no bearing on the gameplay or story.


This is nonsense, and not at all what I said. There’s nothing wrong with having a diverse group of people in your life.

However, you’re not going to convince me (or anyone) that they NEED a hyper masculine male in their life to “grow to their full potential” Just like no one is going to be convinced they need a hyper masculine female in their life to “grow to their full potential.”

That’s all just a bunch of pseudo intellectual nonsense, and still no where did I ever even imply that:

Please stop trying to misrepresent what I say. It’s tiring.

This actually sounds really cool.

It also has a particular priority / constraint which hasn’t really been acknowledged here yet, in that I guess it’s easier for NPC and playable character interactions if sexual and flirtatious dialogue has flexibility? So Axton can give a randomised call out when he’s being revived, and Ellie can call whatever character she runs into cute. I assume it’s less complex.

Will someone please help me to understand why there is any disagreement to the point being made by the original poster?

@cameronjohnson4884, made a legitimate point: the writers and designers of this game made a strong effort to be inclusive to many different types of folks, while at the same time, also seem to have made an effort to exclude able-bodied, cis-gendered, straight men, who display masculine traits (why isn’t there a Roland-esc character in this game?).

The excluded group also represents the majority of the game’s player base…

His point just seems like a fact to me, the writers would probably admit it. I’m not sure why anyone is arguing over it.

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Getting quite specific here.

Do you have any evidence to support this? I appreciate that lots of gamers are male, but ‘able-bodied, cis-gendered, straight men, who display masculine traits’ seems like a different claim altogether and I’ve no idea whether it’s supported by facts.


So, people are upset that there aren’t more straight, white, cis, males in leading roles in the game? Oh no, I’m SO sorry that you only have Zane, Marcus, Brick, Troy, Vaughn, Rhys… Geez. I feel so bad for you. Totally lacking in “representation”.
Would it help if I told you that you can go and play 80% of all video games ever made if you want to play a straight, white, cis, male? No, that wouldn’t, would it? I’m TERRIBLY sorry that people are recognizing that other people exist and are including them in their stories. It’s SO sad to see.

ALRIGHT! Now that I got my sarcasm out I can real talk with ya. This is a blatant case of “Other people are getting equal treatment therefore I feel I’m not as important” syndrome. You are privileged. You see yourself everywhere therefore when you see less of yourself everywhere than you usually do you get upset. Get over it. You are not losing anything when other people get a chance to shine.


What about Odysseus, Balder, Prometheus…

Yeah, it’s kind of funny that for most of my life nearly every single game I’ve played, movie I’ve watched, book I’ve read, I’ve been able to “identify” with straight white male protagonists, even though I’m not one.

It’s only been in the last few years that things have STARTED to change in this regard, and it’s honestly funny that people seem to have such a hard time with identifying with a human who isn’t an exact match to their own identity.

Relating to human experiences (no matter how fantastical) really is not hard, even when the people experiencing them aren’t exactly the same as ourselves.



This is the problem. All people should get equal treatment. You are proving my point here: the writers are trying to make up for the “misdeeds” of other games and forms of media… it’s lame.

Why can’t they be inclusive to all? Why am I the enemy? Why do you support me being excluded? Why don’t you support me when I ask to be included?