We Need to talk about Gamma Burst - Overhyped and Undertuned

Attack commands should do as much as lava pool and every pet needs a move they do themseleves without prompt that is as strong as lavapool. Also action skill damage needs to be entered into the equation some where

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Also I prefer pets do elemental damage because I like the idea of pets having a function other than passive. If both jabbers hypothetically did the same exact damage, what is the driving factor of my choice? Passives? Thats stupid imo. If one jabber has an electrical attack, and the other jabber cryo. Now I have a choice.

We have 6 pets and 6 elements. This is not a hard connection to make imo. It wouldn’t solve their damage issues but I’d give me variety outside of passives and pet design

But they don’t though. Their damage is massively different.

I can understand this argument for the skags and ants, to a degree, but there is plenty of variety depending on whether you want a pet for buffing purposes (which lends itself a bit more towards Gamma builds and tier 2 pets) or for damage (tier 3 pets pretty much can’t do Gamma).

Gamma Burst provides radiation damage, and we already have fire and corrosion. While I wouldn’t mind a cryo pet, shock seems incredibly redundant with radiation and Kinetic being a neutral element provides the most consistent DPS. Countess being corrosive locked is the bane of her existence since it cuts her damage in half against nearly every enemy.

@boombumr

-I know there damage is different… but in a well made balanced game unlike borderlands they would do the same damage. So in the hypothetical world where borderlands Is balanced, and both jabbers do the same damage AS THEY SHOULD. What is influencing my choice between the two? Nothing except passives? I don’t like that at all. For example if countess did good damage I would have no problem taking her into maliwan takedown. Her element is the not the problem. I would have the choice of pet doing fire or a pet doing corrosion. Thats variety. Not two jabbers whose only difference is the gun they shoot(in a balanced game)

-Fire doesn’t seems to keep fire spiderant from melting enemies… if the countess is having issues its because her damage is trash not her element.

For example, Either jabber would be Electric and Radiation. The Erdian Skag would be cryo and I’d keep great horned skag as kinetic. And they don’t have to ALWAYS do elemental damage. Just a move or two. Elemental Damage is multiplicative. Kinetic Damage is not.

Just for a point of reference, these are the damage values for all the pets (haven’t updated for level 60 yet)

For the most part they do. All melee attacks deal the same damage. Pet DPS in Gamma Burst, where all pets are forced to melee, is exactly the same. The only difference is that the Spiderants deal elemental damage.

She does the same damage scorcher does, but there are only so many armored enemies. Aside from that, Scorcher has the advantage of the magma pool which allows it to perform 2 attacks at the same time, something no other pet can do.

Just changing the gun produces vastly different results. Shotgun damage is much more of a melee tank while Gunslinger kites enemies forever. Gunslinger nearly never gets hit, and without any pet survival skills will rarely die. It’s the best pet at naturally stacking Frenzy without He Bites, and does the most consistent pet DPS and Burst barring high mayhem magma pool scorcher. Shotgun Jabber will be much better at tanking for you though.

They have different uses.

All elemental damage is multiplicative, even Kinetic. It just has a multiplier of 1 most of the time.
The issue with the other elements is that while they have multipliers greater than 1, they also have multiplier less than 1 a fair amount of the time as well.

Adding elements to different pets won’t make them appealing if they weren’t already. For instance, even if Gunslinger dealt shock damage you’d still use it for the Freny stacking or attack command, and it does so much more damage than the other pets that it would still deal twice as much damage as them even against flesh or armor. However, even if you added cryo to Eridian skag, if it doesn’t have enough damage to reach the freezing threshold on enemies then it doesn’t matter. And since you have no way to increase the pet’s cryo efficiency, you would rarely see a slow or freeze before you killed the enemy.

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@boombumr
can you elaborate on lavapool explanation? Because if a bug is the only reason why the pet is viable on m10 i’ll be very upset

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That is 100 percent the case and it’s very unfortunate and it’s likely to be changed before properly giving pets as a whole real damage.

There is a table in this thread.

This hasn’t been confirmed yet, but the working theory is that somehow the pool is getting the x30 action skill damage scaling from Mayhem. It should be doing much less damage, within the realm of 100k or so.

@PrinceLestat224 This is unfortunate news. That means I’m basing my buff idea’s on a mechanic that isn’t intended. I retract my statements @boombumr . I clearly have no idea what i’m talking about. The pets are in a worse condition then I ever realized. Its terrible because imo, I think the fire spider is merely OK on m10. Nothing to crazy like Zane Clone and Moze Bear. Now I know that even that is a facade and unintended. The pets are just garbage on purpose at this point and it makes me not even want to play the character anymore since pets are why I want to play him.

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Zane clone is getting 30x action skill damage as well tho.

Yes, but the pool is getting both pet damage and action skill scaling (presumably again, the numbers keep working out to a x30 bonus). The pool isn’t an action skill, so it shouldn’t be getting that bonus, as nice as it is that it does.

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Yeah, but there are far worse double dipping interactions to deal with than this ATM.

I feel like pet Attack Commands and pet damage while Gamma is active should get pet+action skill scaling. This would help a lot of pet issues.

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@boombumr

So I agree that it is a bug. I disagree with the idea that it SHOULDN’T be intended. I think every pet should be doing action skill damage on every attack. That’s similar to how Clone and Bear work. The compromise imo would be that ONLY while gamma burst is active, the pets damage is converted to action skill damage. And even then A.I. will limit how competitive it would be versus Clone and Bear.

For comparison sake, Auto Bear is not considered an action skill coding wise. Otherwise it would trigger action skill active anointments and action skill end anointments once destroyed. Yet auto bear is getting action skill damage M10 scaling. If autobear can get that, then the pets should too

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I agree with this. I suggested in the OP that Gamma’s pet bonus should scale with action skill damage. That way the you still get pet damage for the pets but you can get bonus action skill damage as well.

It is an action skill though. It gets the action skill bonus on COMs. It just doesn’t work well with anoints because AB is an ASE skill, so those anointments are only active while piloting IB.

While I agree with the assessment about Gamma Burst and Red Fang, the augment as suggested would (a) make the Red Fang COM obsolete and (b) make the augment required. Neither of those is good for build diversity.

It would make the augment required, but that is because a taunt is integral to this play style anyway since pets have terrible threat generation otherwise. At the very least you can equip 2 augments, whereas you only get 1 COM slot and a skill would be mandatory as well.

Besides, as of right now you could argue that Endurance is a mandtory augment since none of the other ones really provide anything good.

Also, the Red Fang could be changed to have another effect and boost different skills. There have been suggestions floating around the forums for what to do with Red Fang if the taunt were ever moved, some of which are listed somewhere in here.

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I know this would ask too much, but damn it would sweet to see the taunt added into base Gamma Burst.

I don’t think that making the Red Fang taunt an augment would be a waste of a augment at all. My fear would be that it would take the place of Burst Aid as the final augment. The lower half of the Master tree is very unrewarding for point investment IMO.

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Good points

Right, cause lets just be honest Red Fang as an augment will just make it a required augment. So just cut out out the fluff make it a part of base Gamma. May add an augment to extend its range.