Well, guess I kinda killed the replay value unintentionally

So, because of unforseen circumstances, I managed to bring my Moze and her Iron Bear on a level there in Normal mode, nothing has a chance to kill my Mech.

I didn’t really look online for builds, but generally just focused on skills to increase the fuel, reduce fuel use and reduce cooldown for Iron Bear. This alone probably would only get me so far, but on level 20ish I randomly found a “bear trooper” class mod (50% more fuel and -50% fuel usage), so that already made everything else a lot more effective.

In fact, I guess without it I wouldn’t spend most of my time in the Mech… But with the skills I have I can usually heal it as long as I do crits to incinerate targets, which isn’t too hard with most enemies using the Railguns.

With this habit I just played around in Mayham 10 with Lootsplosion and Holy Crit as a necessity. With that, it didn’t take too long to get loads of Cash and Max out SDUs as well as finding Legendaries… Though it was way easier after getting the Keys for the Vault Card with the Shlooter.

After a while I found an annointed Weapon that increases Railgun Damage by 150% and a better “Bear Trooper” with one of the 3 Stats being +43% Action Skill Damage… I could probably look for one that has better Skill tree buffs or secondary stat boosts, but if it isn’t with at least as much Action Skill Damage up, it seems like a downgrade at this point.

It kinda felt good to just figure this out rather than looking up a build, but fiddling around with regular weapons and seeing how little they do in M10, I noticed just how powerful the Iron Bear really is.

It feels justified, like nothing is worse than having the feeling that some no name “Badass” is too much to handle even with the “best gear” you could find and your Action Skill at hand… (Glaring at BL2).

So on one hand I’m happy that with the Mayham buffs I could find so much gear and level up quickly that I reached that sweet end point with a maxed character, but on the other hand, I feel like I beat the game on “easy mode” and I think I don’t want to bother with other characters.

I mean, basically all I do is use Iron Bear to destroy most enemies without any issues (of course Strong enemies with Corrosive Immunity are little difficulty bumps as well as Strong bosses with Super Powered Shields or lots of forced invulnerability phases), so I guess it goes against the spirit of looking for better guns and constantly improving your load out, but looking back at BL1 and BL2 there always seemed to be a lot of weapons I considered good for nothing, so I guess, nothing really changed…

Don’t even know if starting over in True Vault Hunter with Mayham on will improve loot and buff enemies noticeably, or if M10 is basically the same in both modes…

But the Story kinda dragged on imo and I don’t know if I really want to replay it if I probably won’t use any of the weapons I get along the way, since my Iron Bear is basically my go to for fighting.

So yeah, I guess while I did enjoy finding that Moze build, it probably spoiled me and this means I won’t play again, because everything else will probably be a lot less effective than her and thus “seem weak” in comparison.

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There is literally NO difference between “Normal” and TVHM once you turn on Mayhem mode.

Long story short, Iron Bear is indeed broken on M10/11. However, to say that the other VH’s will feel “weak” in comparison is a little overdramatic. Especially when compared to a IB with a Bear Trooper COM. With either a Flare(DLC) or Raging Bear you could easily double or triple your IB damage. The other VH’s can easily steamroll M10/11 as well with well set up builds. For instance, Zane has the fastest clear times with several purple tree builds. FL4K has PLENTY of damage to plow enemies at M10/11 while having a pet to be able to revive you when you blow yourself up with a barrel. Amara can wipe an entire group of enemies seemingly instantly with Ties That Bind. While it is true that Iron Bear is a little too strong I can’t say that it will ruin your experience with the other VH’s.


Start doing that i suggest, maybe add your own touch to them but moze is far from being only Iron bear builds

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Iron bear Day: 1 kids toy

Iron Bear Day: 600 Walking Transformer capable of soloing the entire game


Any VH can steamroll all game content with an endgame build… Take my Amara’s Deathless Fury Build:

Maliwan True Takedown looks like cake with this build. Moze only ruins the game for you, if you let her.


Interesting to hear that DLC holds some good stuff still… Will look further into it when my brother has time so we can go through the DLC Missions together before I start farming for stuff.

It’s also a bit surprising that Mayham is the same for both normal and TVH, but I guess that means I can just ignore it unless I feel like redoing all the missions


Well, I guess that’s true…

I mean, the purple one replaces the Iron Bear with a companion, so there have to be builds for Moze surviving and killing stuff outside of the Mech…

But after finding the Bear Trooper Mod, I wanted to see how far I can push it.

switch to iron cub

Well yeah, at first it felt pretty weak with how little fuel and HP it had…

Had some bad “Toby” Flashbacks from Battleborn, big target that just gets destroyed easy…

But luckily, I eventually got the Skills and the Mod to make it really good.

Pretty impressive.

What Skill/Gear is making your Sirene slide that far?

I know you showed everything at the end, but it was pretty quick and I don’t want to keep stopping to read everything just to end up overlooking it… :sweat_smile:

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At the Moment I die pretty quickly outside of the Mech with Moze unless I’m super duper careful, so I don’t know if a freely rampaging Iron Cub is gonna do me a favor, if I just drop dead because I’m not used to playing the game outside of the mech with strong enemies running around.

using iron cub helps you to learn to play the game better, you now have to wait for shield regen, hide, find cover

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I use a Snowdrift Deathless artifact to get, I think, a 130% boost to slide speed… Then, when the Mindfulness stacks kick in, I get a boost to speed which can shoot me like a rocket sometimes…lol…

Last stand deathless plus a good madcap for me

That’s a good combo… But I use an Infernal Wish shield. I do have a carapace version, which gets me close to 350k on my shield. I then get the benefit of the Infernal Wish shield while still having an insane amount of shield. And I can’t use anything but a Snowdrift Deathless because I need that extra slide speed. The Toboggan doesn’t boost you as high as the Snowdrift, and I can really feel the difference.

I get about 400k out my combo but that is before shield of retribution kicks in that can drive me up to 800k for short periods
I do need to take a look at the infernal wish…

They are almost exactly the same, but TVHM has a higher base chance for badass enemies (as well as anointed enemies and red chests, I believe) to spawn, and the Shlooter boosts their Legendary drop chance (common trash mob foes don’t have a Legendary drop chance, which is why they still drop whites and greens on M10/TVHM, even if you have the Shlooter procced). That’s why I play on both M10/11 and TVHM. Most loot opportunities, most XP.

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That’s precisely what killed this game for me. Too easy. No challenge. And once you’re run through all of the DLC there’s no replayability. Sorry, but I just don’t enjoy plowing through the exact same thing 1000 times in a row with no challenge. That’s about as fun as getting to max level, getting all Mayhem 11 gear, and then playing with Mayhem turned off. Between “legendaries” raining like candy from the sky and the lack of any real challenge to the game I just can’t find any reason to play it anymore.

And no, I do not find artificially limiting myself to be fun. If I know I can knock you out with one punch then tying one hand behind my back doesn’t make the fight any more interesting.


I’ve worked on my build that made MTT cake since I started playing when it was first released. It has morphed over time as I leveled up and had more points to spend in the trees. I spent a long, long time playing with what I thought was the best build I could put together. It was a Urad/Deathless build that utilized full blue and red trees with a touch of green and a splash of purple (when purple came into play). All the content was easy, and I had reservations about the game, same as you. But I decided to take down some walls I built that were limiting the full potential of my build. So, after putting over 4000 hours into my OG phasezerker urad/deathless build, I branched out to look into Melee.

Melee is interesting in BL3. It’s not very affective with your hands or punching… Not unless you do some weird things or have huge stacks built up. But even then, I wasn’t too interested. Especially when most melee builds were built around ammo regen and the facepuncher. That’s not my idea of fun. Or a lot of times you’ll see Guardian Angel shotguns and fish slapper builds. Not too much fun after awhile. Then GBX released the latest Vault Card and introduced only the second weapon in BL3 to use melee and gun damage in the rounds it fired, the Blade Fury. And it is manufactured by Jakob’s. My favorite gun maker in the Borderlands verse.

I spent a few weeks getting to know this new AR and also getting familiar with melee in BL3. I like the way it is, actually. And they should have introduced a whole slew of melee/gun damage guns in this game. And here I am, finally, with a build that is miles better than my previous one’s… Almost 2 and half years later, and I’m still discovering new things. (and yes, my gameplay video below uses a plasmacoil, but for speed runs, there is nothing faster with my build)

My point is… Yeah, the game is easy… But if you stop limiting yourself, you could have so much more fun in the game. There is only no challenge because you have given up on challenging yourself.

BTW… this is the result of all that fun I’ve had:

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I wonder, do you think BL2 handled Difficulty better?

Personally, I just wanted to get to Level 72 but couldn’t because Ultima VH was too much, but it seemed like it would be the most effective to struggle through to get some missions done for the XP… But for me, having to decide between getting OP and making stuff too easy or getting stuck at a game that’s feeling unfair/cheap, I’d rather take what BL3 did then Ultimate Vault Hunter from BL2.