What are all the known counter picks in Battleborn?

Since people have been trying to make tier list posts and discussing balance I thought it would be great to discuss how each of the battleborn counter each other. I feel like this knowledge is more important now with seeing the enemy teams picks. I am looking forward to the discussion and having this information compiled into one place. Maybe even discuss characters who become better when paired with another battle born.

Known ones I know are Phoebe soft countering galilea. Attikus, benedict, any character with a good primary attack and can aim, and hard CC countering orendi.

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Formica is a great counter choice.

:joy:

In all seriousness, though, I usually try to ban Beatrix and healers first.

As much as I hate to say this, Ernest is a solid ban choice for any Incursion map.

Orendi is always a solid ban pick.

That’s all I got, still figuring this draft thing out myself!

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I am not talking just bans, I am referring to enemy teams has X and ally team picks counter Y. Thanks for the input in the discussion though.

I’d argue the opposite way on gal vs phoebe

just my experience playing galilea. If I don’t have Abyssal form up and I get hit with Blade cascade I am probably dead. I may just not be that good of a galilea though.

If the enemy team has a Pendles or a Deande a good counter pick is Orendi, Ambra, or to a lesser degree Marquis
I do consider Shaurox a threat coming out of stealth but she’s not using it as much as a Deande or a Pendles, so it’s not as necessary. Oscar Mike isn’t enough of a stealth threat to bother with a reveal

Montana is a pretty good counter to Caldarius
Ghalt and to a lesser degree Shaurox is a good counter to Kleese / Ambra / Ernest (really anybody who is sitting back a little way in a territorial setup
Beatrix is obviously a hard counter to Alani, and diminishes what Miko can do
Reyna is a counter to Beatrix

I could keep going but those are off the top of my head

you can pull her out of it or stun her out of it. But anywho, whiskey counters the big frames and tanks, ghalt counters anybody who’s camping, gal counters kelvin, and Beatrix counters everybody.

I feel like an enemy reyna that knows what they are doing. soft counters orendi. Between her homing shot and her shields keeping me from doing a finishing blow.

ISIC and Marquis can shut down Benedict hard.

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Having trouble with Alani, Attikus with some speed gear can melt her fast

Yeesh, those are not exactly great bans. Ernest is not worth a ban, or even an early pick, simple because there are too many strong counter-picks (Thorn, Marquis, Ghalt, etc) and strong characters that can fill his role. He’s a fat target (see also: Kleese). He’s totally worth a late pickup if you are lacking on waveclear, but honestly, there are just better picks in the role that have less counterplay.

Also, banning healers first is a bad idea. There are enough strong healers that you can’t effectively pinch that role in the ban phase, and you’re giving up much stronger bans. Every once in awhile you’ll see an Alani ban for meltdown, but that’s because she has such strong lane sustain for smaller groups in addition to strong waveclear. You shouldn’t be banning Alani on Incursion since it’s much harder for her to sustain full teams against full teams. In fact, you should probably leave your healer pick(s) for 3rd or 4th pick in reaction to your teammates’ and enemy’s picks. If the enemy team is full of strong poke damage, a healer like Alani is going to suffer since she can’t heal groups fast enough, while Kid Ultra and Ambra will thrive since they can heal multiple targets at once against poke damage. If you have a large distracting bullet sponge like Kelvin or Montana, healers like Alani and Miko are going to be more at useful than the relatively weak single-target heals Ambra and Kid Ultra provide.

If you want to look at good bans in the current meta, ban away OP characters, strong CC, tanks, or basically anyone that takes away your agency to push or can put you in a position you don’t want to be in with minimal counterplay. Specifically, characters like Beatrix, Galilea, Boldur, Kelvin (although he has the most counterplay of the tanks mentioned, he still has arguably the best setup and teamplay in the game), and Ghalt. Sometimes, if you’re T1 and are trying to secure one of these, you could opt for strong target bans like Thorn or Orendi, but in general, T2 isn’t going to put themselves in a position where you can secure a power pick and they can’t secure one in return. If you’re T2, you are required to ban away first picks like the ones mentioned unless you want to just jack off behind a corner all game because Galilea shuts down any push attempt you make and Boldur is constantly diving your backline, killing your carries, and getting away with it despite eating three stuns because he’s Boldur.

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Could just be my play style, but in my experience Caldi > Montana as long as you save you dash to get out after eventually he slows you.

Also Reyna isn’t much of a Beatrix counter. If Boulder plays his role right, he counters Beatrix well. Beatrix can’t do anything to him unless he is over extended (in which case it doesn’t matter who is on Boulder).

Everything else I agree with. Why do you think Marquis’ reveal isn’t as good as the others? I used to play with him a ton before WU and I haven’t played with him enough to see the changes with him.

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Orendi is just so evil against Pendles. I have developed such a good eye for seeing his invis shimmer, plus a lot of other characters invis shimmers. once I see it just drop pillar and watch them die if you have a smart team who focuses. Pendles can avoid marquis, especially with the nerf. Pendles option against orendi is just don’t ever be near an orendi who knows how to reveal.

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@beta382

Wow!

Thank you for the great tips!

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If Montana can make Caldy retreat, then he’s a counter to him. A pretty hard one at that.

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Gravitic Burst distance is actually reduced by slows and Montana has one of the longest and most consistently easy to hit with ones in the game. Especially now with the accuracy buff on weatherman coupled with his focused fire mutation at 5. At high heat that’s 75 percent accuracy, and it allows you to keep on an agile small target

I say Reyna is a hard counter to Beatrix because both she and whoever she is shielding basically negate the dot ticks, and she can remove debuffs entirely with her level 6 mutation

Marquis reveal range was nerfed in a hotfix recently. Orendi and Ambra’s reveals (on SFP and Sunspots respectively) reveal in a wider range now

Edit : Like @lolattheseforums mentioned, even just making a Caldy retreat is a counter. That means he’s not in lane helping with the fight / assassinating targets / blinding waves etc

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I will say this, if his slow is not up, Caldy can really f*ck up Montana’s day.

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Yeah that’s true for most agile characters with burst potential. Doesn’t matter how high you crank your sensitivity you just can’t turn quick enough to land more shots than they are

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Orendi counters pendles way too hard. her reveal on stealth characters is the cheapest. He becomes a burden to have in the team if Orendi has reveal on the enemy team. specially in smaller levels like overgrowth.

With most characters, I would agree. But with the mobility of Caldarius-retreating is just another word for repositioning. I run health regen and symbiotic gauntlet on him and whenever I pull back its really just to shoot at Montana from a different angle.