What are you worried about in BL3?

Yes, thats true. But the same goes for Avatar as well, especially considering that Soulsap is in the same Skill Tree. Being aggressive gets rewarded if you can just quickly refill your health with 2 short bursts from your Action Skill.

More of an oversight by Steam really. For the most part people wanted to review bomb gearbox or 2k over the EGS exclusive decision however because the only access they had was game titles they went with that.

Having a rating for the developers and publishers would be nice tbh as there are quite a few instances in the past where a dev or publisher that was generally disliked did put out very good games people enjoyed.

At the same time for many of the larger ones doing this would be an exercise in futility because they just don’t care until they start losing money then find ways to shift the blame elsewhere. Such a system would probably benefit smaller or indie devs the most that are building a name for themselves.

If you ultimately want to place a blame on the review bombing of BL2 though it would be with 2K and their decision to take the fortnite money offered to be a timed EGS exclusive as they should have had a good idea how that was going to be received after the metro exodus launch and they went with it anyway.

im worried about them calling all bosses invincible when they clearly dont have any immune damage mechanics, really bugs me when devs cant think of things imaginative to help players decern what kind of boss it is. or calling everything a raid boss when clearly some where guardians. i really want names that matter so i know what monsters loots tables and mechanics are like.

I hope the game has a healty online play. I hope there will be no gibbed, or similar editors. In a game of looter shooter, I expect the drops have a meaning. Duping should not be possible.

4 posts were split to a new topic: Modding Discussion in BL3 Thread

Right, before this gets out of hand - forum rules.

Please read the FORUM RULES

Specifically this bit.

On game modifications and modified content

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Got it!

i agree i hate feeling like i wasted character skill points, i love playing with my friends but skill trees around the idea, is not as good, but haveing more options is nice. that said i feel an entier skill tree on co op play was nice but not optional. i feel like gearbox could have done it better with weapons or gear that are just better when more people are around.

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I’m a little worried about Zane at this point. I’m personally not a fan of pet classes, so FL4K and Moze don’t really interest me as much, so its always been Zane and Amara for me. Amara looks quite neat (if a step backward from fellow elementals Krieg and Athena). Zane conceptually is definitely the most interesting, and I love the idea of a strategic killskill class, the doppelganger swap, and 2 action skills. However, he seems to be bogged down by several failings the class designers really should have learnt from previous games by now.

First, Zane’s damage numbers seem awfully restrained. I mean I get his Killskills can stack and he can buff them with dat capstone. But even then, at 2 stacks, his gun damage kill skill is still weaker than Onslaught and his fire rate than Metal Storm (Axton’s sort of the baseline cos his gun DPS is the lowest in TPS/BL2). It just doesn’t seem particularly rewarding to engage in that specific playstyle. Similarly, his barrier skills give meager bonuses which makes adjusting your way of playing just not worth it. In the Borderlands franchise, generally skills which force you to play in certain ways (like Krieg’s Bloodlust/Hellborn, Athena’s Maelstrom, Zer0 in general) reward you. Those skills that force you to do that but are too weak (Incentives, All I need is One, BlW) are generally ignored. Right now Zane has all these interesting skills and playstyles, but the numbers just don’t make sense.

Secondly, he seems to have too many survival skills revolving around his health and shield. If there’s anything we learnt from class design in BL2 and TPS its that 1 big survivability skill always trumps 10 weaker ones combined. Think of how Sustenance + Elated + Ward + Recompense =/= Sweet Release. Or how all of Axton’s numerous survival skills just can’t trump Life Tap or Thrill of the Kill. I mean its okay, necessary in fact to have a few of these smaller survivability skills - not all skills should be god-tier. But so many just seems odd when Zane already has a few really powerful survivability skills (the Life steal ones, his barrier). And the game kinda forces you to waste those skillpoints because Calm, Cool, Collected looks pretty indispensible at this point.

I mean of course, I could be totally wrong and Zane could really subvert all these expectations at release. But right now I am feeling trepidation towards the remaining 2 classes (and any DLC ones), and I really hope Gearbox does properly test this game, not just in Normal and TVHM, but in MVHM too.

I have these worries as well but we just have no idea about the scaling and enemy balance in BL3. I noticed on Amara as well, not just Zane, that bonuses you get from various skills are a fraction of what similar skills did in previous games.

I can only assume this is no accident, and at least some testing and balancing happened to arrive at these conspicuously low numbers.

I did like the bonkers stuff we got, especially in TPS. +28% melee damage is just not as exciting as Krieg’s +1000% or so… but who knows, perhaps it is exactly those crazy numbers that make the game hard to balance.
If more restrained bonuses are the price we pay for “UVHM” (whatever its equivalent will be) not being broken, I’m totally fine with it (althought UVHM was decent in TPS).

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Zane looks pretty cool to me. I think we have to consider that there’s mechanics in his skills trees that aren’t comparable to previous games, and that we won’t understand till we see them in action.

I mean look at the bottom of the Double Agent tree. You’re literally giving your clone a copy of your gun! We have absolutely no idea what that means. Does he aim for crits? Would he be able to snipe for you? Or tediore chuck? Could you summon him with one weapon and swap to another one so he can handle shields or freeze enemies? It’s uncharted territory. Boom Enhance can give your clone up to +33% gun damage, +51% max health, +51% fire rate, and +36% reload speed for the cost of 3 grenades, which you can get back through Pocket Full of Grenades anyway. That sounds super strong to me but we’ll have to see

The barrier capstone is just as hard to imagine. Distributed Denial takes the effects off your shields and applies them to your barrier and nearby allies. I have no idea what that would mean on some of the shield gimmicks (especially when roid and nova shields trigger on depletion) and it’s possible that it’s useful offensively as well as defensively. It’s also worth pointing out “effects,” plural, in the description of the skill, because I noticed at least one higher rarity shield with more than one gimmick.

There’s also Violent Momentum. In the description 5/5 points says it gives you “30% gun damage at regular walk speed,” but to me that leaves it unclear how much further increasing your movement speed will take the bonus.

Then there’s the possibility of kill skills stacking. I know I saw Donnybrook with a “x2” next to it, and again that’s not a mechanic we’ve seen in previous games.

Then there’s cryo. We know Zane has a couple cryo-related skills but it’s hard to tell whether cryo simply has an effect on enemy’s behavior (making them frozen/slowed) or whether it will increase specific sources of damage like it did in TPS.

So I’m not really sure how you can evaluate the characters we’ve seen without more information. There’s just so much going on and to me Borderlands is all about synergies which you can only discover when you start to understand all the moving parts.

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I love the goofiness as well. The cell-shaded graphics work very well with the cartoony humor. This series has never been about realism so I say bring on the weird and goofy!

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You’re judging Zane’s skill damage output based on the balancing from the previous games. From what we’ve seen so far, it’s safe to say the game has been completely rebalanced. Sure, those skills might seem weak for BL2 standards, but we don’t know if that’s actually the case in BL3. I really doubt it will be the case.

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Been mentioned tens of dozens of times, but it can never been stated enough. Microtransactions. Even cosmetic ones can be annoying. Sure, pay to win isn’t much of a thing in PvE, but having everything cool locked behind a $5-50 pay-wall is asinine. Warframe, Dauntless, Smite, etc. Decent games, but the fact that you either need to play religiously for weeks, login daily (for “rewards”), or simply purchase “special currency/tokens” to gain access to the only aesthetically pleasing things in the game (or seasonal ■■■■) agitates me. It’s not a huge deal at the end of the day (especially given BL is 1st person so I’m not constantly seeing my ugly butt), but as a human I tend to enjoy things that look nice.

A couple/few (2-4 per character) purchasable heads/skins similar to BL2 isn’t a bad thing, but when you become a F2P or a mobile game… that’s when it gets bad.

I can’t speak for the others but I think Warframe does it perfectly. After playing for around just 30ish hours you can have all the gear needed to go farming for arcanes, prime frames, etc to make a lot of plat on the in-game trading platform. Use that to buy all the cool cosmetics.

I’ve never seen anyone else rally against “playing religiously for weeks” to get cosmetics…
How many hours have you put into the Borderlands series? Since most of the people on this forum are die-hard B-Lands fans I’d venture to guess you’ve put at least a few hundred hours into BL2. If Gearbox does allow cosmetic unlocks for doing things in-game similar to Warframe I would guess that you would have all of them unlocked after a few hundred hours (not true with WF but it’s an MMO and a much larger game and would take at least 2k hours to reach that 100% inventory status unless you’re blessed with very rich parents or a cushy job).

TLDR; We love playing games and to get rewarded with aesthetically pleasing in-game equipment by just playing more makes PERFECT sense.

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That’s just it, I don’t want to play for as many hundreds of hours as I have to unlock a cosmetic. I want to play because I enjoy the game not because my goal is that cool looking hat or the ability to dye a shirt black. I’ve played BL2 for a little over 2k hours (lol) at this point and it wasn’t because I could grind for the one hairstyle I think looks cool for Axton. It was the love of the game. I just don’t want to feel like I’m playing a F2P.

I don’t mind advancing through the story and completing a side quest to unlock a hairstyle. What I do mind is needing to play for two months, accumulate special items, haggle on sell prices with other people, finally get enough of that “special currency” to afford the item only to find it was seasonal and went off the shelves yesterday. That or login daily for 12 weeks to get enough login “rewards” (incentives) to afford the black color dye from the “shop” instead of the off-rust grey that is in the base game. I recognize it may seem a bit nitpicky, but this is how they bypass the “pay to win” model. You don’t pay to win, but if you want that awesome lookin’ kabuki mask then you better be willing to shell out $25 to buy the “Border Pass” for that month.

EDIT: I just hate the idea that a $60 game would have a “cash shop” where you need to buy 80% of the cosmetics the game has with a special currency that is exceedingly/fairly rare (or even nonexistent) in the base game, yet purchasable for real money. It feels like a giant slap in the face. In a F2P game? Sure, whatever. Dev gotta eat. In my AAA “I paid you pricks up front” game that is slated to already gouge me another $20-40 for DLC?.. nah.

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Warframe IMO also has one of the better player cash shops. Though that opinion might be slanted a bit between being one of the founder members of the game when it was still just a beta and dropping one of those 75% or it might have been higher at the time login coupons then dropping $100 into the store and ending up with enough platinum to instant build my entire clan’s dojo, buy a bunch of random stuff in store, and still have a ton left over. So between nearly everything outside of various cosmetics being accessible in game with time investment and getting a mountain of in game currency at a nearly non existent exchange rate… yeah XD

I fear that Krieg and the other Vault Hunters of BL2 will be considered bottom of the barrel to the new batch. I dunno, but I feel like BL2 VHs should be kinda top of the food chain. Also I fear that a portion of the BL2 hunters might be dead or dark side.

Another concern is that I’m afraid that a lot of the guns that were old favorites (Bessie, Dove, Hellfire) will either not be back or will be brought back in a gimped state.

Couldn’t agree less. I adore the VHs from BL2, but I don’t want any one game to have characters made that I purposefully like less than a previous game’s. I already love Amara and Zane being Irish has really helped make me keen on the bloke. The BL2 cast will always have a special place in my heart, but I always want to find myself enjoying/appreciating the new characters in any game I play/ thing I watch/ etc. If I enjoy them more than the old ones, all the better.

I may have misinterpreted what you meant though. If you meant it more like, they’ll be treated as background noise in this game… yea, that would kinda suck. I wouldn’t say the track record is bad though given how integral the BL1 vault hunters were to BL2.

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I don’t want them to be forgotten in the new Era. My feelings are that if the new guys are too much more powerful, it would make the previous batch seem inconsequential. Make their accomplishments seem meaningless. Take Krieg and Salvador for example. Borderline unkillable tanks make exclusively for decimating hordes. There’s also the fact that I would feel hurt if some of these characters received a dishonorable or BS death.

My point is that I feel like the games as a whole have relatively bad power differences in characters between the games themselves. It’s a power fantasy yes, but the difference are quite extreme. Makes past accomplishments seem like nothing.

My secondary point, but one I care more about, is that I feel genuinely good weapons from past games will be completely disregarded. Like the Anti-Materiel rifle in the Bessie. Specifically, and perfectly, made for taking out badasses. Or the absolute buzz saw of the Serpens. We saw what happened to the “Successors” in the Hawk Eye. It was bittersweet. It felt like a callback until every other Jakobs SR surpassed it to a borderline painful degree.

All in all, I just feel like the BL2 hunters might be taking a sideline (either in plot or accomplishment) and old weapons are going to have their memory disrespected. I’m a writer and I make sequels to stories that will likely never see the light of day. To make it perfect in my mind, I feel it necessary to make the succeeding characters better in some regards and worse in others. So that none are truly “Apex Predators”. I hope you understand the point that I made WAY TOO COMPLICATED.