What does everyone think about Chaos Chambers then?

Yesterday afternoon, Gearbox announced the first hit of endgame (we can also expect Chaos Trials as well) for Wonderlands. It looks like effectively randomised dungeons with tonnes of ways to mix it up and get loot. I’ve seen people asking for the equivalent of Diablo 3 style endgame for years and this looks fairly similar to how I understand that works. So what does everybody think?

Personally, I haven’t really made my mind up as it seems a lot to take in.

Dev diary here for people who want more detail:

Also, anointment/enchantment re-roller coming on day 1 :grinning:


Enchantment rerolling doesn’t sound like an exciting way to minmax gear, but the Chaos Chamber itself sounds ■■■■■■■ fantastic.

There’s potential for so much variety, and you control what rewards you get. I hope they can add more bosses in the future, or really expand on this later on. That said, visually the bosses here are some of the best I’ve seen in the series. If they’re re-using campaign bosses I totally understand, but having exclusive bosses would help this mode feel special.

Would love more maps like Takedowns/Slaughters/etc alongside this.


What is an exiting way to min-max gear for you?

Slaughters are wave-based arenas. We had this in every Lands game. It would be surprising not to have at least one in this game.

Takedowns are linear maps with miniboss and boss enemies. This map, described in dev diary, is very similar to a Takedown. But with some moving parts relying on asset groups.

I know, I know, you said “more S and TDs”. If you change rectangle from red to blue, how long before it gets boring again? I am gainst quantity over quality, but that’s personal preference I guess…

I’ve watched Joltz’s video about this and I don’t buy it. Sure, runs will not be 1 to 1 levels of the same, but how much will sets of variation extend/impact experience?

Good idea, but I need to see more.

I was burnt by Horza Horizon 5 last year, because I trusted a streamer/youtuber who is usually no-bulls×. Apologies if I seem to be bit cynical.

Goddamnit! It sounds like a proper rogue like mode! They should have done it in Bl3 instead of f… Arms Race :rage: ! First interesting thing I heard about Wonderlands anyway.


It’s mostly to do with the Enchantment’s we’ve seen so far. Most of what I’ve seen is +damage ASE, just flat increases. I’d like more creative enchantments- like maybe a chance for your melee attacks to short-circuit, dealing huge damage to yourself, but your enemies too. Just more niche effects that compliment certain skills exclusively to bring out the creative build-making.

Though if we’re talking new systems, I’m not sure what exactly would work in Wonderlands design-wise. But an idea I had is if we consume a copy of an item to improve the stats of a item, but it takes away in a different stat. this can be done up to a certain no. of times. Just more long-term building so there’s use to finding duplicates outside giving them to other characters. Rerolling an enchantment and that being it doesn’t I feel have much progression. I’d like some sense of building towards something

Oh yeah i share the same sentiment. I’ve shared the same critique with BL3. That’s exactly why i’d enjoy endgame activities other than the chaos chamber. i don’t want 25 takedowns that spread ideas thin, 3-5 memorable ones with their own variances can make all the difference. The key is variance

How boring the game will get depends on the game i guess! BL3 got boring for me after a year but BL2 I still find myself wanting to start a new game- I’ve just played too much I’m sick of it lol

No worries, I’m cautiously optimistic at best for Wonderlands. My thoughts are definitely changing once I play it, for good or bad I’ve no idea. I’m at a point where I don’t know if the current direction of BL is for me, and I’d like it to be perfect just as anyone else.

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This seems really cool conceptually, but will have to wait and see what it actually plays like. A lot of potential, for sure. It definitely feels like they’ve taken lessons from both Mayhem mode and the Trials of BL3.

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Agreed. Sounds like they are moving in the right direction in terms of endgame content.

I would still also like to see a home base of sorts (Hall of Heroes, Fatemaker’s Fortress, etc.) that acts as your ultimate hang out and stash for spare loot, trophies, etc. All kinds of tailored side quests, etc. could then be used to help populate, expand, modify and grow your home base as you continue to play, adding to the endgame experience while maintaining an immersion in the game world. Special vending machines/vendors could be unlocked, trophy rooms, loot vaults (as opposed to a bank), magical conversion devices (for cosmetics, or re-rolls, loot grinders, etc.) could all be housed in this building. And the building itself could grow and expand by completing special quests and spending… whatever (crystals, eridium, etc.). The possibilities are endless.

I have been kind of avoiding info about Wonderlands because I want to keep my expectations low and judge the game fairly whenever I play it.

But just reading briefly about the Chaos Chamber concept, this sounds a lot like what many players on these forums have been asking for. It appears to be trying to take the Digi-Peak/Takedown concept and randomize the experience as much as possible so as to make it more replayable.

Again, I have not watched any pre-release video or coverage of the Chaos Chamber concept (or really Wonderlands at all) other than just to briefly read about it above, but my general impression is that this appears to be GBX listening to input and trying to iterate in ways that, frankly, are needed in the Borderlands franchise.

I feel like this sounds like a step in the right direction as far as changes/development for the game and franchise.


I like the fact that “if” I make it thru, on whatever settings I chose, I can pick the reward category instead of Claptrap just throwing out anything for me.

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My general impression is it looks interesting and probably something I will enjoy.

It couldn’t be worst than BL3. Even with BlL3’s shortcoming, I am still enjoying BL3.

Only thing I wish is if we can play online and filter out mod users from non mod users. I prefer to play with random people who don’t use mods.

The important question that is not answered in their presentation, are the boss randomized too? I hope there are at least a rotation between bosses and not a Heavyweight Harker situation.

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Look at it like this each Trial, Takedown & Slaughter presented specific challenges that would harder or easier depending on the build. Given the random nature of this mode it would seem that your best builds will always be challenged as one map can easily negate most of your builds benefits forcing you to rely on skill/tactics over brute force.

It’s something that I find spices up roguelites. Runs take awhile to become bland as you spend a significant amount of time being surprised by challenging variables.

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I thought I heard there will be 3 different end bosses; so within that limited pool, randomized, yes.

What we don’t know is what variations those different, midway portals will have. Like is it simply that the enemies have more health or will it be like a mayhem modifier where they now take less fire/shock/cryo dmg

Yes, 3 at launch, then 1 more with each DLC for a total of 7.

Maybe we should talk about chaos LEVELS
that will increase difficulty after beating a chaos dungeon similar to op levels and every like 20 levels there will be dropping new chaos tiers of gear similar to mayhem gear

They more or less announced this exact thing on the Bordercast, only they’re calling it Chaos tiers instead of Chaos levels :+1:

The weapon tiers yes
The difficulty levels iirc are called chaos levels
However matt cox wrote that chaos tiers will increase gear power “in different ways” so hopefully not just number bloating like mayhem weapons

I hope for ALL bosses and named enemies being available in this mode, if possible/feasible.

I was disappointed seeing these boring, flat damage increases making a return, especially after a few thousand hours of BL3. During/after x deal increased y for z seconds. Ugh c’mon, as you said there’s way more creative ways to go.


Eh, “procedurally generated” just translates to “lazy” imo.