What happened to no modifier mode?

Borderlands 3 Borderlands 3 General Discussion
#1

I thought Mayhem 4 was added because a lot of people didn’t enjoy that the game play experience was altered by the modifiers?

A lot of us wants the game to be challenging while still staying true to the Core Borderlands 3 Game Play Experience. These Modifiers Are completely changing the game play experience. I’m not saying they’re bad. I’m just saying they are in fact changing the game. That you can not deny. And to me, they have changed the game enough to where I don’t want to play the game at all anymore. Mayhem: 4 was the only reason I started playing the game again.

And if you think the game is still staying true to the core borderlands 3 game play experience even with the modifiers, well good for you. But for me, it most certainly does not. I respect your opinion on the matter, so respect mine.

And yes, you can turn off Mayhem mode and you wont get any modifiers. But to me Borderlands has always been about the challenging game play. OP levels were Brutal in Borderlands 2, but there were no modifiers. Borderlands: 1 and Borderlands: TPS had modifiers to a much lesser extent than Borderlands 3. They didn’t affect the entire game at all times. They were contained within specific activities within the game.

16 Likes
#3

Agreed. The ‘hardest’ modifiers don’t actually add real difficulty they just punish certain builds and play styles. Ffyl is an integral part of BL and one modifier takes it away, with another you get enemies completely immune to certain elements - punishing element focussed builds and yet another gives you -75% crit damage to punish actually aiming.

#4

MM4 had modifiers.

Did they ever say there was going to be way to turn off modifiers while turning up the difficulty pAST tvhm?

#5

If I didn’t want to play with these zany combat modifiers, I’d pick MM1 and roll until Lootsplosion came up. It’s the only modifier that has zero effect on combat. I would then balance my gear around making that as hard as I like.

#6

Yeah, I kinda liked Mayhem 4 for that reason. I don’t generally care for all the goofiness. But at least the old modifiers weren’t just silly. Now it’s mandatory goofy if you want it to be more difficult.

2 Likes
#7

This isn’t goofy, its actually very aesthetic, challenging. This set of modifiers isn’t even that wild or far out.

Mayhem 10 baby. If you want the gear you’ll ride the Mayhem. No mayhem no gear

IMG_20200424_113354
IMG_20200424_1133542560×1920 1.34 MB

2 Likes
#8

That’s the roll I was playing with one of my characters. About the only one that isn’t annoying.

That’s the problem, it’s not that their “hard” per se, most just aren’t that fun. Well… and goofy. It just seems less like Borderlands to me. I took several characters to OP10, and enjoyed it. This, not so much. I’ve tried most of the combos, and the only good thing about it is that you can reroll instantly and it stays that way.

It’s a M rated game, leave that silly nonsense for the LEGO games, etc.

#9

Mayhem 4 did not have all of the modifiers from the other Mayhem levels. Only ones that did not make major game play changes.

And I don’t know if Gearbox ever said that they made Mayhem 4 because they wanted to give an option for people who didn’t like the modifiers. But fact is that people like that exists, and they did make Mayhem 4, which had no game play altering modifiers.

#11

Honestly I don’t think I’d be able to nerf myself enough to get mayhem 1 challenging enough.

#12

It still had modifiers. Did GB ever say they’d have a no modifier mode?

#13

Don’t know, but they did add Mayhem 4 and I was able to enjoy the game again because of it.

And now they’ve removed it, and once again I don’t enjoy the game anymore.

#14

I could care less for the new gear to be honest. I just want to enjoy playing the game. Which I do not without proper difficulty levels.

Mayhem is not so much about making the core borderlands game play more challenging, but instead bring more mayhem into the game play.

I guess i always kind of figured Mayhem was Borderlands: 3’s version of making the game harder like OP levels from Borderlands: 2. But If that’s not it, and Borderlands: 3 wont have a way to increase the difficulty in a Borderlands-esque way, then that’s unfortunate. I really liked that about Borderlands. That it was challenging, but still stayed true to the game play experience that it had throughout normal mode, TVHM, UVHM, all the way up to OP 8. The way most games do their difficulty levels.

Borderlands: 3 has the same game play experience throughout normal mode, TVHM, and then it has no way to increase the difficulty while keeping the same game play experience that you liked the game for to begin with. The only other way to make the game harder is to change the game play experience as well. And some may not mind the change, some may like it. And if people can feel that way about it, it goes without saying that some people may also not like it. And i doubt that the people who don’t like it make up a small portion of the players. People who didn’t mind it can still enjoy the game, and people who like it can also still enjoy the game. But what about the people who didn’t? Are we to be left behind?

Surely most people who didn’t like the modifiers would just play with Mayhem off, and be fine with that. But it’s probably the minority such as myself who just doesn’t enjoy the game without added challenge. Mayhem is our only form of added difficulty, and it’s not like Mayhem off is hard in any shape or form. It’s mind-numbingly easy.

4 Likes
#15

If M4 was a response to crazy modifier issues, then it was only because the system could completely nuke you with no recourse but to reload the game.

The solution to that is now a reroll button. Therefore, they are no longer to blame if your modifiers completely nuke your playstyle.

#16

Let me be frank, rerolling the modifiers were only added because there was a problem with the modifier system in Borderlands to begin with. And the ‘‘fix’’ for this problem is a really bad one at that. I don’t know if modifiers are still randomly changed every so often, but if they are that only makes it worse. It’s really annoying to have to reroll the modifers over and over constantly because you realized your build suddenly broke and you died cause of it.

Why would anyone let a bad idea destroy their entire game? Why commit to a bad idea? Why commit to something that just causes problems? Clearly it doesn’t work well in this type of game. Sure, Mayhem is optional. But Mayhem is also the only form of added difficulty in the game. Mayhem 4 was perfect for me because it didn’t have those crazy modifiers. Every Borderlands games have always had modifiers affect only a very small portion of the game. And no one complained about that. In fact, if the modifiers in Borderlands: 1 and The Pre Sequel affected the entire game at all times I’m sure people would complain about it.

So I don’t know what made Gearbox think letting the modifiers affect the entirety of Borderlands 3 was a good idea.

There’s something called minimizing risk in game development. And it’s when you’re adding something potentially controversial into your game, and controlling it within its own environment. By doing this, you’ve minimized the risk of people disliking your entire game. Because if this new part of your game ended up flopping, it hasn’t ruined the entire game for your players. So rather than not enjoying the entire game, there’s like maybe one game mode or one map, or whatever it may be, that people wouldn’t like. If we’re talking Borderlands, this would be the slaughter domes. And if you know about minimizing risk, you would’ve also made these modifiers within the slaughter domes optional.

3 Likes
#17

To answer the OP: it was never promised. Nothing “happened” to it.

Old M4 still had modifiers, there was just less RNG applied to them, so that didn’t really qualify by itself. Mayhem 2.0 never talked about a “no modifier” mode, or anything close to it. I get the logic behind the request, and I hope Gearbox at least entertain the idea (even if I personally think it devalues Mayhem 2.0 and lets you get loot that other people have to roll modifiers to get).

Mayhem 2.0 is a lot similar to Mayhem. It’s not radically different. The only group is alienates is the group that specifically plays M4 for the sole reason that they don’t like modifiers (there are other reasons to play M4). And personally, I don’t think that group is as large as you keep claiming it is.

1 Like
#18

I still wish they had a “No modifiers” mode, or even better a way you can choose the modifiers.

Maybe make it while under this “mode” enemies don’t drop certain weapons or something.

I just don’t understand why Gearbox won’t put this in. It’s been something we’ve been asking about for a year now.

1 Like
#19

everyone can play 10 its not hard but its ANNOYING as f takes the fun away

2 Likes
#20

I legit can’t tell if this is sarcasm. You can turn the modifiers completely off. This also brings the difficulty down so most (all?) non-meta gear works (and you do lose out on the experience gain, loot quality, and cash drops that are tied to the increasing Mayhem levels).

For players used to using meta builds and perfectly-anointed gear, this may make the game seem too easy (and I do agree that the game would be better for having the difficulty adjustment separate from the Mayhem Modifier selections), but it’s totally a thing.

Really, if you park at Mayhem Mode 1 and roll for Lootsplosion, you basically get a relatively easy difficulty with no changes to combat mechanics.

#21

This is what I normally do, all gear is viable at that level and you don’t need to concern yourself with getting the elusive combination of anointments desperately needed by a lot of builds.

Though lately, in the last couple days, I’ve bumped myself up to M4 (rolling lootsplosion and drone ranger), and it’s not too terrible. I wanted tougher enemies… they don’t die quite as fast as M1 naturally but it’s also not aggravatingly bulletspongey. And anointments still feel “optional” at that level and all the gear I’ve tried still feels good. I’ve run some different bits of content (various boss runs, Maliwan Takedown, etc) and M4 feels pretty good. I might end up parking myself there.

#22

M4 is where I park myself sort of by default - I’m only dealing with one actual Mayhem Modifier (usually go for Chain Gang - if I’m ranged, it’s not an issue; if I’m close for melee, it’s great for zipping down a Roid shield). It also lets me hear hidden-but-not-yet-aggro enemies before I stumble into them, and is easy enough to dodge.

Most of my gear at this point is Mayhem 10… some of it is too powerful here, but a lot of the low-end stuff hits about right for me.