What HW3 could learn from Company of Heroes

After playing Relics follow up Company of Heroes I discovered how much more fun an RTS could be when resource collecting is removed. Imagine HW with space points you need to control to up your automatic resource collecting per minute. We see something similar now in HW with Relics injecting bonus resource. It’s that idea basically that COH is built on.

Now ask yourself how would it change HW. Well if you play both you will notice just how much faster combat skirmishes start in COH vs HW. In HW you sit around for a long time just trying to outrace your opponent on making a winning fleet then you roll with it and decide the game. COH on the other hand allows tactics to play a much greater role. And fights are continuous throughout the match. Just compare a twitch feed between the two. COH gives you something to watch right away. HW gives one time to go take a dump, make a sandwich, and then maybe there may be something ready to see by then.

So many things have been suggested for HW3 but I believe going the COH resource route would change the gameplay so much more for the better than any other suggestion.

No.

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Tiberium Twilight.

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I can only agree with the other 2 here by saying “no” while I like coh and play it on a regular basis I don’t see those 2 franchises mix in any way.

The only thing which might turn out to be interesting would be a sector control like skirmish mode + the regular skirmish game modes.

Adding some sort of density and tactical game play similar to x4 games how ever that may look like.

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You make the same thread in steam too…the answer would be still a no…nein…nope…tidak…etc…etc.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/244160/discussions/0/617329920698925559/

Please don’t ruin classic game like HW series…that idea will ruin the gameplay badly. I even don’t use the RU inject and relic option when i play skirmish,it will ruin the pace of the game and the gameplay if it is used in MP

All we need for HW3 is the same gameplay mechanic,a little tweak is fine but with more diverse/new ships,and of course with a truly epic stories,the continuity from previous series.

Why kids these days always want an instant/fastest/quickest way to play and win the game…/sigh

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I’m a 45 year old gamer. RTS has been my favorite genre since Warcraft and C&C. And the COH resource method I suggest is not to make the game end quickest. The suggestion is to enhance the need for map control over the current turtleing. These ships have engines. Put them to use. Instead they sit around and camp most of the game because securing about 2 asteroid locations is pretty much all you need before you roll your sizable fleet forward to decided the game.

For those of you that play COH imagine what the coarse of the game would look like if all you needed for map control was the closest resource point outside your base. This point and your home bring in enough resource that you can build your army in full before rolling out to test the enemy’s defense. Yeah I can see it in my mind now. Both players building and choosing their preferred unit mix until they get to about 80 pop cap then roll everything they got in one blob toward the enemy. If the opponent timed it about the same, they would meet somewhere near the center of the map and have a huge game deciding battle where you select attack move and sit back and watch the fireworks. That thought experiment pretty much describes HW.

COH on the other hand solves this large blobbing problem in two ways. First, it makes each of those points outside your base only provide a small boost to your overall resource total. Hence, you are encouraged to go and grab more than one of them. This then creates friction between you and your opponent as you both try and claim as much of the map as possible. Second, COH adds 3 Strat points which are placed in the central area of the map. This provides a secondary reason to get out there and skirmish for control. If you don’t, and sit back until you build a huge fleet you will probably lose because your countdown hit zero. These factors are the two brilliant ideas that minimize blobbing, encourage more mobility, and lead to more skirmishes.

Removing harvesters is strongly resisted I know. They can remain a central part of the game if one thing is changed. I’ll get back to that. The strategic points from COH however, could be added in and not upset anyone’s apple cart for suggesting to change the harvester formula. At least then one of the incentives I pointed out above will encourage early movement of force to claim some central map area. If nothing else is changed about HW other than this, it would make a skirmish match a much more dynamic game.

Now back to presenting a simple idea that keeps harvesters in the game, but also at the same time encourages capture of as many asteroid locations as possible to increase RU intake. To make map control more important to potential victory the current camping at 2 asteroid locations has to be discouraged. How? Simply make the 2 asteroid locations that currently suffice insufficient to bring in RU fast enough. Lots of asteroid locations can support 6 or so harvesters, which in turn limit the need to have more than 2 or 3 claimed asteroid locations. If say only 3-4 harvesters could mine an asteroid location, and adding more won’t speed up RU intake, then a player by necessity would seek to control more asteroid locations. This in turn creates the battle for map control that COH currently does so well.

Forcing the fleet to spread out to claim locations increases action, reduces blobbing, increases ship casualties, and rewards clever play more than we see now by a long shot. And to boot it’s not a radical change in design. Just a subtle change that encourages map control which leads to so much more fun playing.

That is the formula I suggest to please those that want little change in how things are done. Personally, I would prefer an attempt to use some imagination to come up with something really original and great. Since I predict a new resurgence in Space RTS in the coming years, it will probably be a new IP that delivers on that. And then the space fleet loving crowd will migrate over to the much more fun to play space RTS.

They say RTS is dead, but I’ve been a long time PC gamer and heard that claim many times about genre’s. At one point all I heard was RPG’s were dead, and look at it now. It works in cycles. After a while the public begins to starve for a new experience, which is actually an old experience which the teens were to young to enjoy. Then the Devs switch gears and feed the new desire and then we get a few good gems and then a lot of clones which are forgotten in 6 months. I’m pretty sure the Devs out there are smelling the need for a space RTS, which is why I’m pretty sure there will be a HW3. And I have the desire to see it provide consistent action throughout the skirmish, which is why I started this thread.

I see where your coming from, but as changes go its pretty radical and would hack off good sizes chunk of an established player base, which you know doubt realise.

How about instead of removing the harvesting mechanism, instead make the collectable R.U’s mobile. Such that they all randomly drift across space and ultimately drift out of play. Which in turn are replaced with more R.U rich asteroids entering play from another random direction. this would cause players to react in a much more mobile manor which seem to be what your after.

With the caveat being you’re to be able to turn of this Asteroid motion if a more static/classic based game is wanted by the players. That and I’d probable leave this out of any future Single player campaign just to keep things simple.

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Interesting idea I like that…

As for the coh approach - I recommend playing few mp matches usually the fighting starts very early with fighters and resource harassment which equals fuel sector stealing…

Once the factions get rebalanced I’m sure even greater games and fights will happen… As for blopping in coh2 that’s still there and actually increased a lot these last few patches again kinda silly but at least it can be stopped… In regard of BC spam in hwR that’s somewhat harder at the moment (rebalancing needed)

To be perfectly honest, this exact mechanic you are describing it what turned me off CoH. I played HW1 and 2 and modded the crap out of both, so plenty of experience to come from. I really did not like the CoH (and expanded into DoW) Resource Mechanics, and to see it in the HW Universe would, in my personal opinion, ruin the gameplay for me.

As a side note, having your idea in your thread is awesome. Spamming the idea to other peoples threads about barely related topics, that is not cool.

Spamming other peoples threads???

Are you referring to the link above where I discuss this same idea over on the Steam forum? FYI they are my threads. I started them, which is why they have the same name. So it’s bad form to want to reach two separate audiences? Some people here may not bother with the forum over there and vice versa. This topic is only covered in a total of 3 threads. This first was a topic started by someone else on what would you like to see changed for HW3. It was there I first discussed it, and then I decided to move my particular idea into my own thread so that it wasn’t a miss mash of tons of unrelated ideas which was what that first thread was all about.