What I would like to see in BL3 now that S. Pass 2 is done

Let me preface by saying that I love the game. In many regards is a huge step up from the previous entries. That said, to me, there are many things that could and/or require some serious tweaking.

The following example is what drove me to write this massive thing. So bear with me, if you may:

I just scored 220 kills on the Psychobillies (4/10/2021). 10 kills per day, in over a period of a month a half looking for a Burning Kaos. The final tally was 87 legends: 22 Foursums; 16 ASMDs; 11 Fastballs; 1 Corrosive, 2 Cryo, and 5 Shock Kaos, as well as other assorted legends such as the Krakatoa and a Quasar. Started at M4, and went up steadily on Mayhem levels until I spent the last 2 weeks at M11. That is around 100 kills with ZERO legend drops. Its worth pointing out that I saw the highest drop frequency between M4 and M6. At higher Mayhem levels, I saw more frequent periods where no legends would drop at all.

This is going to be a horrendous wall of text, so apologies in advance. I will try to make it as short and concise as possible.

  1. Drop Rates and Dedicated Loot Tables.
  2. Weapon Part Extractions.
  3. Weapon Skin Color Wheel.
  4. Dedicated Head, Skin, and Room Decoration Drops.
  5. Adding Maya’s Funeral to the base game.
  6. TVHM and Pearlescents.
  7. Consolidate Legendaries.
  8. Bringing back removed Brand weapon categories.
  9. Making Heavy weapons worth it again.

Alright, let’s begin:

  1. Drop Rates and Dedicated Loot tables::
    I agree that world drops needed to be nerfed. However, this is an issue due to the fact there are just TOO MANY legendaries in the game. This is further compounded when you got items like the Night Hawkin, the Woodblocker, the ASMD, and Tina’s Hippity Hopper that seem to drop far more frequently than any other world drop.

What I propose is the following: Mayhem scaling (1 to 10) dictates, by a universal % across the board, the number at which both dedicated drops (DD) and world drops (WD) drop from Unique mobs (such as the Psychobillies). Rather than an arbitrary % that is largely obscure (really, what is 2500% mean in the big scheme of things?).
So, it should look like this:

Non-Mayhem: 10% +1 DD.
M1: 25% +1 DD.
M2: 50% +1 DD; 25% +1 WD.
M3: 75% +1 DD; 50% +1 WD.
M4: 100% +1 DD; +10% +1 additional DD; 75% +1 WD.
M5: 100% +1 DD; +25% +1 additional DD; 100% +1 WD.
M6: 100% +1 DD; +40% +1 additional DD; 100% +1 WD; 20% +1 additional WD.
M7: 100% +1 DD; +55% +1 additional DD; 100% +1 WD; 40% +1 additional WD.
M8: 100% +1 DD; +70% +1 additional DD; 100% +1 WD; 60% +1 additional WD.
M9: 100% +1 DD; +85% +1 additional DD; 100% +1 WD; 80% +1 additional WD.
M10: 100% +2 DD; 100% +2 WD.

This way, players are getting rewarded for time invested. And it prevents extended periods of legend drop droughts. Or at least add this as an option that players can opt in or out at will.

  1. Weapon Part Extraction Table:
    Another big issue, for me, is not only that there are too many legendaries, but that there are so many part combinations that the chance of landing a desired weapon become very minimal. As the example of the Psychobillies provided, clearly demonstrates.

A solution to this problem would be allowing the player to extract desired parts from a weapon, while destroying it in the process, of course. For example, if a player is searching for a Burning Kaos, but only keeps getting Shock, Cryo, etc. What he could do, theoretically, is extract the Fire Dmg component from another weapon, and use it on his current weapon to create the weapon that he/she is searching for. Of course there could be limitations, like Mayhem level restrictions, and even Brand restrictions, such as High Crit dmg components being limited to use among Jakobs weapons. Or, obviously, shield modifying components limited to only Hyperion.

  1. Weapon Skin Color Wheel:
    Don’t get me wrong, I love the weapon skins in the game. But it would be cool to have a dedicated chromatic wheel that allows us to adjust the color of the different effects in a weapon. Such as the base color, sheen (such as the gradients/patterns), effects (such as lightning/inscriptions), and then your misc tab (for like splatters, and decals).

  2. Dedicated Heads, Skins, and Room Decorations Drops:
    This one is self explanatory, and it would make it easier to get all the items. Oh, and also a unique shader for the little item beacon, when they drop would be nice. So they are easier to spot amidst the loot diarrhea that sometimes bursts out.

  3. Add the Maya Memorial Story to the game:
    This is a big one. Ava and Lillith easily have the weakest arcs in the whole game to an extent. Its not all bad though, because their behavior matches accordingly to most of the events of the game.

HOWEVER, when it come to Ava accepting her culpability in Maya’s death, and Lillith’s lack of action to a dear friend of hers dying by her commands, is sorely missing. Maya dies, Ava gets angry, Lillith mopes, and then we move on to Eden-6.

But when you watch Maya’s Funeral, it makes all the disorganized pieces fall in place. Ava suddenly is no longer this whinny, bratty turd. And Lillith reacts on a more human way, and understanding way. That makes the characters more relatable, which is what should be the drive behind their arcs.

And this is why I think it needs to be added to the game. Specially because both actresses do a bang up job at playing their roles, and their voice acting is solid.

  1. True Vault Hunter Mode and Pearlescents:
    Not gonna lie. Outside of re-experiencing the story again, there is ZERO incentive to play in TVHM. Mayhem solves loot drops and difficulty. So why bother?.

What I would love to see is two-fold:
First: Introduce beefed up versions of the base enemies, like the ones we see in BL2, and even the Arms Race. Jack 'em up with armor, and all other whacky ■■■■. Armored Zealots? Yes please. Exploding Skags? I’ll take 3. Cloaking Marksmans? Slap my ass and call me grandma. So on and so forth.

Second:
Let’s bring back Pearlescents. However, not in the sense that was used for BL2, because I am firmly against introducing even more legendary-esque weapons when the current pool still needs a lot of work.

Here is what I propose:
Introduce brand new super rare weapon parts that can spawn with Legendaries. This allows a legendary to spawn as a beefed version of itself that is Pearlescent Quality. Barrels that increase the number of pellets exponentially; Capacitors that increase Elemental DoT to ludicrous levels; Triggers/Hammers that allow pellets to punch through armor and cover; mags that turn single projectiles into AoE effects; I dunno. Go crazy.

  1. Consolidate Legendaries:
    First off. No more Jakobs. I think we are up to our neck with Jakob weapons. Second, there is bloat of legendaries. The Convergence is a better Conference Call; the Duc is just a Torgue pistol; the Chandelier and the Recursion might as well be the same thing; the Firestorm and the Krakatoa, same deal; the Damned is just a Hyperion AR; the Dark Army is a Ten Gallon on steroids; so on and so forth.

There are many awesome weapons from BL2 that I would love to see make a comeback. As well as see what other unique effects can occur. Like weapons that draw power directly from your shield, or grenade launchers that use your 'nade mod. Again go crazy.

And while we are on the subject:

  1. Bring Back removed Brand weapon categories:
    This one is a sticking point for me. I would love to see Maliwan, and Tediore launchers to make a return. Atlas has plenty of room for some creative Snipers and shotguns; COV could benefit from their SMG’s and Shotguns making a comeback (just no more F-ING fire dmg ones!); and Hyperion pistols are sorely missed by your truly.

Also on a side note, I think it would be cool to see Lasers become their category but that is a minor thing.

  1. Make Heavy weapons worth the effort:
    I going to be honest, when I think RPG (or Heavy in this case) I think single shot, many deaths. However, in BL3, outside of some very hyperspecific cases (like the ION cannon, Major Kong, Backburner, and so forth) most heavy weapons are kinda lacking on both damage, area, and spectacle.

I would prefer it is the heavy (and sniper actually) pool was halved or even reduced by one third of its current capacity; the ammo per mag reduced to 3 to 5; ammo was rarer to find; and 100 times more expensive to buy IF all Heavy weapons could deal enough damage to one shot most base mobs (heavies included) in a large area in a single shot, and the ammo cost gimmick was removed.

Also, more variety of Heavies: flamethrowers; rail guns; actual laser cannons that fire massive beams non stop; heavies that eject streams of corrosive spray; heavies that paint an area, and as long as you hold the trigger, it will charge up a singularity that blows the whole are, etc.

TL;DR:
Well, I guess that is pretty much all the stuff I would love to see added to BL3 and subsequent entries. I understand that for many players, chasing that godroll weapon is worth the grind; hell for some the grind is the fun itself. I can respect all that, but I think it is plenty of room to provide everyone with systems that make the game fun. Whether it is endlessly hunting for specific weapons, to those that simply want to fulfill a shopping list and just use that ad nauseam (like me).

Once again, I am so sorry for this wall of text. I started writing it 8 hours ago, and it was much much bigger. So I redrafted like 4 times, and spent hours trying to condense as much as possible. This monstrosity is the final product. If you read it all, thanks for your time.

Also, make shields and mods scale with Mayhem for Pete’s Sake.

11 Likes

mayhem 3.0

10 Likes

Few things …

Full fixes of every single bug thats been reported and unadressed

Huge addition of slots for the bank

Updating guardian takedown to be rewarding

Knowing Gbx , these 3 things are already asking too much of them -.-

3 Likes

Yeah, pretty much lol.

Pretty easy really, abandon M7-11, abandon Mayhem Scaling entirely and give an option to trade modifiers for reduced world drops on each Mayhem level.

M6 without any scaling is less spongy than M10/11 with current scaling, this would require a new round of “balancing” to deflate the damage of unnaturally potent “Legendary” gear.

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its easy for us to think about it or even do it (i have my mayhem 3.0 on my own mod)
but gearbox seems to struggle

That is a great solution on 1/3 platforms . . .

i mean i do what i can to improve it for as many people as possible xD
all i can do for console players is talking to gearbox over and over

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Yep you have 0 obligation to be here and try and help the community push for changes but you still do for those console players that are locked with no mods and no save editor !! <3 even tho im not a console player , a gamer is a gamer in my book , no matter where they live or how they play!

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Wow… I mean it’s your opinion on what YOU want in the game but most of those I’m a big nope with.

Weapon Part Extraction table: While I’m sure a lot of people want this it’ll eventually kill the longevity of the game as it’ll make farming very minimal which is an integral part to this series ever since Borderlands 1 released.

The dedicated heads etc…: It kinda is dedicated with some. But I kinda like that from a completionism perspective.

Heavy weapons: They already have Laser like weapons and had them in the Pre-sequel. Sadly they were not popular. As for flame throwers, there are a few. Rail guns: They have the Ion Cannon and the new Sniper rifle that pierces shields.

Maya getting a funeral: Why? They didn’t have one for Roland or Blood wing. They erected some statues for them after everything chilled. The universe isn’t exactly at a calm point atm.

TVHM and Pearls: TVHM did have a reason and still does. It allows people to play DLC content again with their characters they have an affiliation for so they can experience the content again. Pearls are something that could be dropped from Hemo but the two don’t have to have a connection.

at this point all I want is crossplay for us console plebs, and a buffed Hellfire.

And one more raid boss… or five

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I see the point you are making. However let me argue them:

  1. What exactly defines longevity on a game?. Is it the same for every player?. Should a game have longevity endlessly, or until the next entry, or should it be limited?. Should it be quality of the loot?. or the gameplay loop?. is it the farm?. is it the grind?.

From my perspective, what gives a game longevity, is a very personal thing. Subjective if you may. I can respect that for many farming an item is the fun. For others grinding for a godroll weapon is the fun. For many its the gunplay. And for others it is making a shopping list and checking the boxes when the item finally drops. But like I said, the game can have enough systems that not necessarily cater to all, but are there give players the option.

Like I said in my Psychobilly example, I am okay farming for an item. Grinding for it, I am not. Its not what makes a game fun for me. So having an option that can somewhat mitigate the problem, would be welcome. In addition, just because it is there, doesn’t mean that every would use it. You see many players releasing godlike builds, that can pretty much one shot anything in the game, but not everyone is going to use it.

  1. I have been playing the game since release. Up to this day I am still seeing new room decorations drop from vanilla. It is not exactly ludicrous, but it is slightly ridiculous to have to rely so heavily on RNG for cosmetic items.

  2. I don’t understand your point. Are you agreeing, or disagreeing?. Out of the 22 Heavy legendaries, the half are just some variant of a rocket launcher. Not a bad thing, but not exactly creative either.

  3. The difference between Roland’s death, and Maya’s is that all the involved parties continue to behave in a somewhat consistent manner. Roland dies, Lillith gets captured, Brick and Mordecai enact a plan to ensure her safety and are laser focused on that, with minimal impact to their behavior.

In the case of Maya’s death: Both Ava and Lillith are directly responsible for it. Ava shows no remorse for her actions. She simply gets mad at Lillith, mopes, and suddenly by the time you assault the Twins Chapel she is over it. Lillith gets sad, then mopes, then becomes insecure, and then at the end for “reasons” Ava’s words click with her, and she sacrifices herself. But more importantly, in BL3, both characters have ample time to acknowledge, honor, and they do NOTHING. This is why so many players have issues with Lillith’s arc, and more importantly with Ava as a character.

That my friend, is a prime example of weak writing. I will argue against anyone that says that BL3 has weak writing in the overall. But in the case of Maya, Lillith, and Ava, they are by far the weakest pieces of writing in the whole game. Which is even more lamentable when they are such integral parts to the story. And why the f, is Lillith leaving a teenager with zero combat experience in charge of an army, rather than the current VH’s, or Brick and Mordecai?. Hell, even CL4TR4P would make more sense as a commander than Ava.

  1. What you are saying about TVHM, is the equivalent of New Game+. New Game+ is not TVHM, which in the previous entry offered a wealth of new enemies and by default challenges. Which far surpasses simply beefing the stats of the mobs and increasing the frequency of one type of enemies. As for Pearlescents, I am aware that there is no connection between the 2, that is why I am offering a solution that would bridge the weaker aspects of both issues.
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1: Longevity is based on the game being alive and still having an active gaming base. What you listed was the basis of the game i.e. the mechanics of the game (gun play, farming endlessly for loot, grinding, ect). Having any form of disassembling the weapon parts reduces the time spent on farming for certain weapons as you could build the perfect gun. That detracts from the original concept of the game when Borderlands 1 came out and it’s several sequels. If you’re wanting to disassemble a gun for it’s parts and rebuild it then you’re essentially a modder with limitations being stuck to that manufacturer’s parts list.

  1. Same here been playing since release for each of the games original releases. I’m surprised you’re still finding them as I’ve almost accumulated all of them on my second account. I agree that the world drop ones should have a dedicated drop target. Or like a centralized enemy you can farm for all of them based on their quality.

  2. Neither? I mean they have those weapons you’re looking for in game already. They have been in the past games and just haven’t been very popular by demand. You might be able to make a build based on these items though. I personally liked the lasers and flamethrowers but having to bloat the weapon pool seems a bit overkill as we look into the state of the game now. Too many unique weapons that just seems like a small tweak on another gun.

  3. I see what you’re saying. I do think the cut funeral scene should have been added to the base game and that was a call by the writers to omit it. I think the commander of the Crimson Raiders should have been anyone other than Ava (though I wouldn’t go as far as saying Claptrap would be a better choice). Probably not Tanis she needs to continue doing her research on the Eridians and Sirens and commanding an army as a slightly damaged scientist might be a bit difficult. Mordi probably would have been the best choice but he’s busy I guess with Tina and Brick. I think they might have wrote themselves in a corner as everyone (past vault hunters) was already busy with other projects.

  4. It didn’t add a wealth of new enemies however. The enemies were renamed and or possibly reskinned, but were the same as previous weaker versions with better stats. TVHM in essence is the way Gearbox refers to New Game+. TVHM still has use for resetting the missions to refarm certain items repeatedly (more than twice) like cloud kill or Seventh Sense, or to enjoy the story over again. However, since the introduction of new features requested by the community the use for TVHM has been essentially dumbed down for retelling of the story or getting certain mission specific weapons (again like could kill or seventh sense). Adding Pearls exclusively to TVHM might entice players to go into TVHM but would it really help considering the influx of meta builds? We would need some QoL improvements to warrant that level weapons. I’m thinking we need not only pearls exclusively to THVM but the main story mission needs to be completed while it unlocks something like digistruct peak or some raid bosses that are going to be hard on meta builds.

I like your points man. I am not going to argue that my ideas are rock solid lol (whose are?) so I thank you for insight. Specially the weapon extractor idea. When you put it so eloquently I can see how it would be a pretty broken feature. Maybe spread the drops across more mobs with a more hyperfocused system?. Who knows, I suppose. I would like to see a system that makes the farming more erhm farming, and less grinding. That would be nice.

Well, more importantly, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to read that monstrosity of a post, and for replying to it. I know its stupid long, but still…you know, thanks =D

I guess if they introduced anointments as a crafting mechanic like mods in outriders they could have stayed with low drop rates and you would always have something to farm for while also being excited about legendary drops

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asking gearbox to do reasonable rescale is asking for much more than to ask same thing a single modder.

i can not imagine them nerfing the guns they overbuffed. they still have an smg in game that has sniper damage per bullet, oh and it is splash too

5 Likes
  1. i think the pearl idea is rly good
    making legendaries able to spawn in tvhm as special drops with one super enhanced aspect that sounds fun, if its actually random and has an extremely low dropchance… like cmon…

  2. i think tvhm mode should just offer a reset in everything. no mayhem scaling as it is. but just wacky enemies. the difficulty is basically arms race-ish

  3. more heavy weapons like an actual flamethrower that sint the long musket or some other fun things would be nice, alot of te rocketlaunchers are rly boring, the best ones ive tried where either event, or newest the rhyna as is kinda hilarious

  4. more brand weapons… just this…

  5. the legendary bloat is ■■■■■■ and i made a post myself on this. i do not think in this game you can save it. but thinning out the legendary pool / world drops is a good call.
    like you can take all world drops and devide them by planet with their respective circles and trials. that makes each world valuable in its own right

  6. adding back maja cutscenes and so on should have been a given… its incredible how dumb of a call it was to cut it. its beyond me how they remove all the things that redeem ava, and ask the question… why do they hate her THIS MUCH
    i think that should not be the only one. but hey… i wanted to get a few more base game missions and content to bulk out what was weak. it would benefit the game and also ALL FUTURE BL GAMES if we have to stick to ava and this mess. its called, doing the smart thing.

  7. part extraction would have been useful for bl2, in this game its not even THAT big a deal. some have no parts like hellwalker, some have big differences that make or break a weapon. however its not like there are so many good versions anymore, in bl2 it mattered ALOT and now its kinda like… you oneshot a boss? you oneshot it harder? so rly the only way this might be interesting would be some sor of way to create dual legendaries like bl1 had. that be kinda sweet. like two weapons that are very similiar can be more or lesss combined to form a new legendary basically.
    or take underbarrels from one vladof and putting it unto another if it has a underbarrel, like shreddifier underbarrel on a fasor.

  8. lootdroops need to go up a little or the eridium cost needs to go down OR badass and loot enemies drop bonus for both and nothing else.
    cuz the eridium costs are dumb high, give it some time and you run out FAST 250—> 100 500—>250 that easy.

1 Like

Imagine miniguns
Are there miniguns already?
CoV or vladof?

2 Likes

You know what I’d like to see in BL3?

A effing refund for the money and time I’ve wasted.

The loot nerf killed me, and yes I’m salty about it.

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I’m pretty simple, have GBX actually test their products before they release it to the general public that way things like…

Console crashing
Split Screen Text size
Split Screen UI/Performace
Matchmaking

Actually work. I know asking alot here because it doesn’t bring in revenue but if things like this were fixed when the game came out Sept. 2019 maybe some of us would be more prone to buy additional paid content and future GBX releases, however at this time…

I’m aware of your Season Pass 2 and have looked into it. As for purchasing it, not at this time.

1 Like