What is the best class?

Borderlands 2 BL2 General Discussion
#39

I could not possibly care less about how often a wrong statement or belief is championed.

Is the Bee a constant go-to for many? Absolutely. There are many videos and posts to prove it. Is it a crutch to afford them success where they would otherwise fail? Only in rare cases (specifically, DPS races like killing the worms at Gee). Otherwise, what does it actually do for them? Nothing at all, unless they are playing such that they aren’t relying on it to stay alive.

On the other hand, there are people leaning on defensive skills like Grit and top tier defensive shields to get through areas like 4x Assassins, because they can’t get by without them. That is a crutch, sir.

If I am failing to understand anything here, it is this: a class that has never held me back, at the highest levels of difficulty, playing exclusively solo, is being called underpowered because it lacks a game breaking skill.

What you are failing to understand is that ‘overpowered’, ‘underpowered’, etc are subjective terms. These are not black and white issues, which is why I have offered specific filters for my definition.

If a class/item/subject does not hinder or prevent success, I call that good design.

#40

No they aren’t they have clear cut meanings. I can be held accountable for people not understanding what they mean.

Never said that wasn’t. But no one has ever said they needed grit and a blockade to beat anything in the time I’ve been around here.

None of the classes hinder or prevent success.

If we include the bee in everything than we have a dps race of for raids of in order:
Sal/Krieg
Zero
gaige/maya
Axton

For mobbing:
Sal/Krieg
Maya
Zero
Axton
Gaige

Without on raiding:
Sal/Krieg
Zero
Gaige
Axton
Maya

Without on Mobbing:
Sal/Krieg
Maya
Zero
Axton/Gaige.

It has one of the highest survivability ratings and thats the only reason reason why he is a middle ground.

Don’t defend your personal love of him and try to make him out to be a god tier character.
He isn’t, everyone here who has done anything related to testing will agree he isn’t.
No one is saying he is bad, but in a comparison to the other characters he is underpowered.

He is not the best at anything but can do everything well but not great.
These are cold facts.

#41

It appears that the impasse is in how we’re defining 'underpowered '. Yours is evidently based on where he stands with regard to the pack in terms of DPS, where I’m defining it based on ability to succeed in the game. I can’t (and wouldn’t) argue that his damage output isn’t lower than others.

So, we have a semantic disagreement.

As far as personal love goes… I don’t have a need for him to be anything. My reason for investing (a small amount of) time in this discussion is simply that I don’t want people to be turned off on a very fun class because someone declares that it is ‘underpowered’, despite the fact that you can easily succeed at the highest levels of difficulty with it, even in solo play.

Every class in this game can be effective and fun, and I would like for players to have a chance to experience that fun.

#42

You can easily succeed at high levels WITH everyone.
Thats the part I keep saying you seem to be missing along with on comparison of skills.

He is no less easier to succeed at op8 than anyone else.
On a statistical(you know that math thing) base he is comparably underpowered.
This does not mean he is bad or weak, just means he is lacking a bit with extra ooph.

un·der·pow·ered
[ˌəndərˈpou(ə)rd]
ADJECTIVE
lacking sufficient mechanical, electrical, or other power.

See it fits. Hes lacking a lot. Compare him to everyone else, he is lacking power compared to everyone else.
His action skill is technically the best slag on raids but the only one that it matters on is terra.
Krieg can one shot raids with no gear.
Sal is sal.
Zero is the burst dps god and can technically oneshot raids without slag.
Maya is the best CC.
Gaige is a moving pet class.

#43

You may notice in review of the posts you’re ignoring that I’ve called out that we’re using different filters. Let me make this easier:

‘Lacking’ is relative to a standard. The standard you’re using is the DPS of other classes. The standard I’m using is DPS sufficient to succeed at the game.

Per yours, he is ‘underpowered’. Against my filter, he is not.

So why do I use this particular filter?

Because I’m not into Time Trials. My objectives are fun via overcoming challenges within the game. Speed isn’t a huge consideration for me.

#44

There are no filters, there is only one linear path in math.

MATHEMATICALLY he is worse because math.
You’re overthinking everything.

#45

A Ferrari is underpowered if we rate speed vs a jet.

It is overpowered if we rate speed vs skateboard.

Different filters. Each mathematically correct.

#46

Linear plane…

#47

Enjoy your day.

#48

For me? Zer0.

His damage is intense. With One Shot One Kill and B0re, grab an infinity and a DPUH, and you can crush enemies. I’ve used him to solo everything. Yes, sometimes I have to use Deception and run, hide, and heal, but for the most part he is intense.

I don’t get why people say he is hard to play, maybe he just fits my playstyle.

#49

You are no longer welcome here.

He’s a glass cannon, that’s why.

#50

What’s wrong with the infinity? Sure, on NVHM and TVHM it is OP, but once you get to OPs it evens out. It is great for crowd control, and last minute “OH ■■■■” moments. I mainly use my electric one now to tear shields.

I dunno about glass cannon. He is pretty durable. I mean yeah you need more strategy, but otherwise the game gets boring. It is like DOOM: Now With Quests!

#51

No it’s not. The Anarchist was way better.[quote=“kgk4569, post:50, topic:1539174”]
but once you get to OPs it evens out. It is great for crowd control, and last minute “OH ■■■■” moments. I mainly use my electric one now to tear shields.
[/quote]
No it becomes even worse.

He’s the least durable character in the game.

#52

I thought Maya was. I die lots with her.

#53

No she’s one of the tankiest characters in the game with skills like sweet release.

#54

shug our playstyles definately differ. I can’t play her worth a damn, but I can rock Zer0 easily.

#55

I play everyone equally.

#56

[quote=“kgk4569, post:50, topic:1539174”]It is like DOOM: Now With Quests![/quote]Ha! Love this.

I too find Zer0 to be the softest of the bunch… not that he can’t be made to be able to stand up to a fight and get things done, but he’s got the roughest time recovering from a big hit than the others (although Moxxi weapons sort of negate this equation: anyone nursing off a Moxxi weapon can be pretty tanky, but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about).

Maya’s Life Tap skill is tanky enough to withstand making out with a Rift Thresher without a shield. Combined with Inertia, Elated, Sweet Release, and even Sustenance, Maya can be made very tough.

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#57

With Zer0 you can quick heal: pop into deception, equip HoT and the class mod that regens, hide for a bit, then pop out fully healed. Works better when you have the Evolution shield.

For some reason I never really enjoyed using Moxxi weapons.

#58

Don’t bother with Blut when the Infinity is concerned :slight_smile:

Just as some have delusions that the infinity is the best thing ever, other have the delusion that it sucks.

It is neither.

With Just about everyone, it’s true that an Anarchist is better most of the time
But with Zero, the Infinity is better IMO

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