Sorry for the late reply, am not as active here anymore (thanks for the ping @HandsomeCam!).
Depending on when you took off, the meta may be largely similar since there hasn’t been many major changes in the past 18 months or so. The last balance patch buffed Oscar Mike’s base attack damage by 18%, so he’s now a top-meta character.
Generally though, a meta comp is a comp that draws from the best characters from the respective roles, and is well rounded across all three of the main categories; frontline, ranged DPS and support.
The best characters which are considered top tier within each category are;
Frontline: Kelvin, Galilea, Montana
Ranged DPS: Thorn, Oscar Mike, Orendi, Benedict
Support: Miko, Alani
If your comp follows the standard structure of 2 frontline, 2 ranged DPS and 1 support, you can mix and match almost any combination of those characters and have some of the best comps around.
There are exceptions, and I could write pages about exceptions, other characters etc, but that’s the very brief summary. Feel free to hit me up if you have more questions, want me to go more in depth or missed something. Though feel free to do so on PSN, since like I said, I’m not as active here anymore, so I’m not as quick here as I used to be.
Edit: This primarily applies to Incursion. A lot of this is applicable to other game modes as well in broad terms, but there are other factors that play into them, what makes a good comp and how they should be played.
Eh… Difference of opinion, Mr. Alex. Only a dozen or so people across all three platforms can play Toby well enough to be a consistent threat, and that learning curve keeps any character in any game from being meta in my eyes. As far as I know from every PS4 Toby main that I talked to, none of them excelled with him out of the gate, and had to work hard to get as good with Toby as they are/were.
Toby isn’t like Oscar Mike, Thorn or Orendi, who most halfway decent players can pick up and get over 200,000 damage with in most Incursion matches. Toby gets shut down easily by roughly half the roster, if they can be bothered to focus him a little bit now and then.
Then there’s the fact that a lot of the elite 10-man players main melee characters (at least on PS4), who Toby excells at fighting, so I think that a lot of the “Toby is too strong” talk comes from them, because he makes things so hard for them. That’s my opinion, anyways.
I wouldn’t say that a characters overall place in the meta should be largely defined by their difficulty. Characters can be hard to use and still very much meta. There are many characters like this across many different games and generally they do happen to be good characters if they require high skill. In this case, toby. Although he’s not the only character like this in bb. Meta characters like benny or thorn, contrary to popular belief, can land in the same category of high skill but rewarding characters albeit at a lesser extent.
Of course he’s not. If he was, he would be the best dps in the game hands down. But that’s where the reward for actually mastering the character comes in. Not to brag, but i picked up and decided to main toby ~8 months ago and since putting in the time required to get good at playing him, he’s practically on perma ban nearly every single time im around in 10s. Toby provides lane pressure and wave clear like no other dps, has cc, can be deceptively tanky if built right and for that reason doubling as a bonus, takes tons of heat off the rest of the team as the enemy dps will feel so compelled to shoot him. This makes him work absolute wonders with characters like dragon or attikus as enemy dps can’t focus two extremely high priority targets to make enough of a difference before one or the other destroys everything. He also has an absurd amount of synergy with the other birds, more so with ernest, as they all can spam ludicrous amounts of damage down lane making general life hell for everyone on the opposing side.
He doesn’t. Just requires the right positioning and aim to fire back at whoever’s shooting unless it’s a mike in which case you really would have to be careful.
Not necessarily. A lot of the more skilled players on ps4 do play lots of frontline, yes, but also can play range quite well and generally most comps are composed of 2 frontline, 2 ranged dps, and 1 healer so it’s not exactly a toby v. frontline thing.
You made a lot of good points, and I was guilty of some exaggeration at a couple points for sure, haha. Still, I hold to my belief that most players of average skill tend to gravitate towards the meta to compensate, especially if a character, weapon, vehicle, etc. is easy to use or has a niche purchase that elevates them to meta status because of how useful it is (AKA Kelvin in Battleborn), which is why you see a lot of Thorn, Benedict and Oscar Mike players in the game.
I’m by no means trying to belittle players who main those characters or who actually play them with great skill (and Benedict, like Toby, actually takes some skill to stay alive with now), but every veteran player knows what abilities most people are using said characters for, because of how strong and easy said abilities are. None of those characters are actually overpowered except arguably Oscar Mike, because they have drawbacks, but yet they get used a lot because of something in their kit that is meta in and of itself.
Toby doesn’t fall into that category, which is what I believe constitutes a meta. No one thing in his kit is easy or useful enough which a different character doesn’t have a better version of. He’s good at a lot of things, true, but so are a lot of easier to use characters who, go figure, you see significantly more often. Toby is great in the hands of a player who grinds out the necessary level of skill to properly use him, and he can still put up good numbers while juggling a couple committed counters, but the fact remains that only a handful of dedicated players play him, and for good reason: No single thing about him makes him ever worth using by 95% of the playerbase, and while he has a lot of roles going for him, it’s not worth the effort needed to make use of Toby.
A handful of players dominating with him doesn’t change where he sits with most. Getting target-banned with Toby is definitely an honor, but at the end of the day, all it amounts to is you picking a different character that you’d probably preform better with than Toby. He’s a versatile character in skilled hands, but there ARE better characters worth picking. That’s not what a meta character is.
For sure. But it’s like that in practically every game. People will generally gravitate towards what’s strongest and possibly easiest but that still doesnt hold back the characters that are also strong but difficult.
I disagree here. I actually do think toby has something that sets him above the majority of the dps roster. It is true that there is nothing easy about toby, all his skills and practically everything about him is difficult to learn and put into practice. And of course, with hard characters, other characters will do something that’s also strong and much easier to use and of course that seems much more attractive to people but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s stronger. Which brings me to my next point.
Toby has several things in mind that id say he does the best of. For one, force field. This gives him the best auto in the game (yes better than om) provided you can land crits. It’s a huge burst of damage which can often delete supports and dps alike while chunking the frontline of most their health. While it can be taken down quickly, it can still be used to some effect and at the very least, can amount to being a high damage skill which only gets higher the longer it’s up and if you can get crafty with positioning, can be held up to a good amount of time relative to what needs to be shot. And even without force field, while not the best in the game anymore, his auto is still no joke. If the aim and trajectory of it is perfected, it’s still very much a good auto and id say still better than the majority of dps. All of this is, of course, only boosted by mid to late game helixes like overcompensating and heartpiercer which increase both his wave clear and player killing potential.
Then there’s arc mine. A very versatile skill. It can be a stun (arguably the best option although pull can compete. More on that later) which once again, no other dps, top tier too, can say they have a stun and this brings tremendous value as it allows him to synergize with frontline on top of the general synergy he has with most dps along with all the benefits of simply having a stun at disposal. Next, the slow. While it quite possibly is the weakest option, it basically allows for even better wave clear although that’s kind of it. Can be good for player killing if thrown into a team fight or a dive but is still not as efficient as the stun or pull. Which speaking of, is the final option. The pull. No i am not joking when i say it competes with the stun. It’s very unorthodox and dare i say im the only toby player that actually uses it for whatever reason as it has extreme utility and potential for player killing due to its interactions. Most characters get stuck inside the radius leaving them to be flailed around and disoriented while toby has his way with them. This makes him much better at working with his counters as it basically lowers the chance of crits or them actually hitting toby because they now have to divert their focus to the mine instead of toby which he can hugely take advantage of and so can his team. Not to mention that it’s also great against supports as they get stuck inside the radius as well and if it’s alani, can get flung to a random direction leaving her away from her team or towards the toby team which is even better. If thrown at a team fight, it can cause huge chaos and often times can win fights because of it. Factor in his level 9 aoe boost and it’s even better. Pull mine is incredibly underrated and even more so wrongly underestimated. Trust me when i say its extremely good.
Then finally, there’s his ult. While yes and admittedly, not the best dps ult, it’s still very much useful. I like to look at it as an extension of his auto. It’s amazing for both wave clear and player killing at the cost of slowing him down and making him an easier target. It’s also good for bursting sentries down if aimed at the crit spot which is something i forgot to mention earlier that also applies to his auto.
All in all, toby has all the tools needed to make him top tier. None of them easy to use, but the potential still lies there. Most people won’t bother with it because of the sheer difficulty but those that do find the value and put it to its maximum use leading to an obscenely strong character. Call me crazy, but id actually say he’s better than arguably every dps except for maybe mike. And that’s a big maybe.
In my case, the only characters worth picking over toby are the s tier tanks. That being kelvin, gali and montana. Maybe it’s just my own toby main greed but if it came down to a choice of picking toby or any other dps in the game, ill always pick toby. For two main reasons. Reason one, he’s my best character and also happens to be a character that easily competes with other dps to the point where he’s actually better. Reason two, he’s always f*cking banned nowadays whenever i join so i never get to play him although this one is more of a personal reason but i digress. Toby is meta yo
I still respectfully disagree, but… It’s strange. Usually when someone says “I respectfully disagree”, it’s not really meant; but this is one of those rare cases where I mean it in it’s entirety. You layed out your reasons for why you think Toby is meta, and they ARE good reasons. They weren’t enough to completely sway me, but I truly respect your arguments and agree with them on many points.
Of course, ever since Toby manifested in my mind a couple years ago from roleplaying as him so much, I could just be succumbing to some bleedover for the flattery he feels at your shining opinion of him… You did say he was your “best” character, right? Oh gosh…! Hmm…
It’s probably both, in all honesty.
In any event, i’m glad that another veteran has finally seen the light that is Toby. Imagine how things would be if you had seen it back when the population was still somewhat healthy. That being said, i’m still here, so you have someone to applaud your entrance into the small yet accomplished group of Toby mains.
Absolutely is my best character. Although toby in general is just the best character. I like to think it was me that shifted him back into a highly respectable meta position and while that may sound egotistical, I do not care. It’s for toby’s sake.
■■■■■■■ hell it would’ve been a slaughter had i found out about toby before the nerfs. Wishful thinking. But nonetheless, a welcome applause. A bit late. But still welcome.
Correct gear has a lot to do with the meta as well, run health gear, just do it, it is the best gear for any character. When you get better with said characters then try and run other gear. The main team comps run 2 frontline 2 ranged and 1 healer, rarely you can get away with a double healer comp or triple ranged.
There are a few off-meta characters, namely Beatrix, Kleese, Kid Ultra, Melka, Phoebe, and Pendles. not saying these character are bad per se, some can be quite good in certain situations, but just not as good in comparison to some of the other choices.