What to do with 8 more points

I am basically running a twisted pimp build:

So now that I am level 80 I am debating how to best spend those extra points. Right now I have:

Subsequence seems like a good choice but there are negatives to it. Sometimes it seems to cause a longer delay for the action skill cooldown.

For the record, I am running with a legendary com. I actually have one that is 50% cooldown which is nice. Is that the max?

The last question I have is it worth putting 1 point in Kinetic Reflection? Should I just dump that point in Inertia? Or maybe put more points in KR?


There was a thread about this, and the conclusion was that yes, it does yield a slightly longer cooldown.

The old OP8 legendary siren could go up to +53%. The new OP10 is likely to go a little higher but, looking at the scaling I wouldn’t think you’d get too much more out of it.

Edit: apparently I’m wrong about that = 58% is 5% cooler than 53%!

I’ll let someone else with more Mayaxperience answer the other questions - maybe @Slif_One or @nat_zero_six have some ideas?


I saw 58% at new OP levels.

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I am unorthodox in terms of my build, @Slif_One is a master of SS, he can help the OP out.

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I think the extension of cooldown is from Thoughtlock, not SubSequence. SubSequence may feel like it has that effect because it keeps your Phaselock out for the entire duration, whereas if you kill your target without it the cooldown starts right away. My first Maya was built into Thoughtlock/Ruin (5 in Helios as well) but not Subsequence, but I gave it a chance when it was suggested to me by @Adabiviak and I am now a convert. It’s an adjustment, but it does come with a payoff. Totally worth it IMO.

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I am a heavy user of, and advocate for, SS. The main argument against it is the downtime when there are no enemies left, SS just flies away or bounces around and that causes PL to have an effective longer cooldown. Other arguments include SS chasing fliers that it can’t catch, and hitting walls and bouncing off surfaces. The latter can be remedied through careful micromanagement, and that just takes experience, knowing what to PL and judging where it’ll go next, though a Quasar to pull enemies from high vantages helps remedy that too.

Since most SS builds use a L. Binder, and most non-SS builds use a L. Siren, that too adds to the cooldown of a traditional Binder build.

IMO the pros outweigh the cons. Being able to clear large mobs in one PL, multi proccing Helios and Sweet Release, hard crowd control from 3-4 procs of Converge, and the +5 to Suspension, Wreck, and Reaper on a L. Binder means massive DPS on heavy enemies. SS allows you to take full advantage of PL against mobs, and the L. Binder boosts some of Maya’s best damaging skills.

Inertia is an amazing skill, constantly regenerating shields means survivability, especially if you have a Blockade, at OP10 Inertia can keep you alive against heavy DoTs that would otherwise down you. The reload speed is great with SS too, fast reloads between SS procs means not running out of ammo during PL, and fast reloads means more DPS. Inertia synergises very well with Wreck, which is a staple Maya skill. Survivability and DPS in one kill skill? Yes please!

KR is a very situational skill, it doesn’t reflect rockets or protect against elemental DoT, and not every enemy shoots at you so it’s often active but not doing anything.

If you do run SS, take all five points for guaranteed chance to proc, and IMO spec out of Flicker, Maya applies elemental effects just by existing.


Good info.

So maybe something like this:

About flicker. I need the points to get to Cataclysm. So do I put the points in Helios or Phoenix?

Also should I switch out of Legendary COM to Binder?

Edit: If I switch to Binder maybe this makes more sense:

Blight Phoenix scales poorly and requires you to be in close quarters, take Helios. Helios scales very well, and since it applies before Ruin, it synergises very will with SS as the whole mob will be slagged when it (SS) procs. L. Binder also adds +5 to Helios, I have nine points in and at OP10 it kills fleshy enemies on its own, which means even more procs of Converge and SR. Oh, the L. Binder also adds +5 to SR :wink: Sometimes PL kills whole mobs on its own.

The final thing I’ll add to your build is that if you do use a L. Binder, which I think you should, you’ll only need one point in SR.

Edit: Here’s my guide, updated for level 80. I use it at OP10.


Thanks. I will give that a read and try out the Binder. I recently started hunting Tubbies and I have a Binder in my stash.

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Good luck with the farm! :smile:

Yeah…I got really lucky and found a Wanderlust. :roll_eyes:

At least I have a binder.

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This is my Legendary Binder kinda coop build.
I dont know if I max out SS as it is already there or if I go down to Ruin.
Either way, it is going to get insane. Maya and Axton are the ones that get the most from the new cap imo

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That is a very different level 72 build.

Not sure what I would do without Cataclysm in UVHM.

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I have some one point fetishes with Maya :

  • Blight Phoenix : sure it can pop barrels but one point is very slow to do so. Besides Scorn will normally clear much of the area. Works great with Life Tap and can sometimes deflect axes.
  • Kinetic Reflection : a bit of damage reduction. Can send Cloud Kill to the wrong target though.
  • Backdraft : shield pops and gives you a bit of elemental damage which can give you a bit of extra healing (Moxxi, Life Tap).

Lastly : SS is only good at 5/5 so the 3 points in the original build should go to Inertia. But I’m just repeating previous posts.


You get used to it, I think. As I mostly used Maya in co-op play, the Slow Hand is my main source to Slag/Heal teammates. Sometimes I even swap Ward for Accelerate so I can play the gun better.
So I dont really miss Ruin at all, as it is not a so good Slag tool without SS imo. I like the Slow Hand + Quasar option together with Scorn.

And when I play solo, Wreck, Reaper and Helios give me a nice burst damage. When playing in console, 100% fire rate means the soft cap (15) with guns like the Tattler and the Butcher. Due to PL short CDR you are always geting this burst damage, so you can pop the Bubble and go to the next target.
SS would turn my burst into momentum, granting more damage output per PL.
Even better than going down to Ruin, as it would be only a new source for Slagging.

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You said it perfectly. I’d still recommend Ruin, the DoTs it gives off aren’t huge but more damage is more damage and it synergises with Life Tap, that and PL slagging means you don’t have to so you can focus on damage. I find it to be a lot more reliable than Scorn too, PL comes back quicker than Scorn and with SS it slags whole mobs and constantly reapplies to extend the debuff duration.

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Thanks for write up. It is interesting to hear of different styles of play.

So I switched over to the Binder and initially it seemed slower. I think it just has a slightly different cadence to the style of play. I am now moving more quickly through things. (Doesn’t hurt that I upgraded my bee). I have been mainly running Dust. In this set up Mobley and Gettle are stupidly easy. Not that they were difficult before but now it is like shooting fish in a barrel.

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I too had difficulty speccing to subsequence since it screws with my phaselock timing. What i did is go subsequence but removed points from suspension and it works.

If you will look at maya speed runs in the peak uses the same setup, ss without suspension.

Try it and see if it works.

That is a good point. I think I will start by trying it with one point to see how that rolls. With Binder that is still better than what I was running before.

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