Oh, and another thing - drop the manufacturer gimmicks. I found that most of them are lacklustre, with the only good gimmick being hyperion’s, followed by Tediore.

Vladof’s recoil gets out hand quickly, as the bonus fire rate doesn’t cancel out recoil, which ironically results in a decrease of DPS

Torgue is really gimmicky, and the projectiles tend to have poor accuracy and velocity. Not a fan

Bandit is pretty bad overall. I never use them. S&S was much better.

Maliwan and Jackobs are ok. Pretty much unchanged from the previous game. If there is a change I haven’t noticed it.

Dahl feels clunky, especially if you are using an automatic weapon, and sniper rifles waste ammo. The assault rifles are better than Vlad’s and Torgue’s, in that they can actually hit the target, but its jarring to suddenly go into burst fire when aiming down the sights.

Hyperion, imo, overall has the best gimmick, as it provides consistent damage on a target.

Tediore is also pretty gimmicky, but its not too bad, and the thrown weapon can deal a bit of reliable damage. Second best gimmick, imo.

I greatly preferred how Borderlands 1 handled it, where the weapons merely had stat differences per manufacturer and gimmicks were reserved for unique or rare weapons.
On the subject of weapons, I didn’t like how some manufacturers forgot how to make some weapons, like hyperion suddenly forgetting how to make assault rifles.

I’m totally the opposite than you on this, in bl1 I don’t remember even having strong feelings to brands because they all felt the same.

In bl2 there was no confusing a Torgue to Jakobs to Hyperion shotgun. Also they way they did the shotgun barrels were amazing but not only shotguns, snipers, pistols, everything. However Shotgun barrels were done the best, and AR’s the second best.

Jakobs in BL1 were nothing like they are in BL2, I love how different they are from the other brands in bl2 and they really feel like the old west guns.

How ever I do hope they bring back legendary parts from bl1, increase the barrel variation to be more like bl2 shotguns.

I do agree they need to look at the balance of Bandit/Scav. I think the big mag being the thing is ok but the other stats need work to get them more in line.

I would also like more brands making more types. I don’t know if they all need to make everything like Jakobs SMG’s don’t make sense but I would love to see Jakobs Launchers like the Ahab and 12 pounder could of been Jakobs.

2 Likes

The best of both worlds. I’d love to see that in BL3.

1 Like

Fair enough. I will admit that the differences in stats are subtle. I happened to like it that the guns in BL1 felt ordinary, like guns, with nothing amazing save the odd elemental effect or the ability to shoot rockets. Technically Bandit fulfils that niche, but the stats are just so bad :frowning:

That’s another problem I have with torgue. Remember finding a weapon with the “Holy Crap, it shoots rockets!” stat for the first time, or firing the Boomstick? And how nuts it was shooting a rocket out of a shotgun? Well, now a manufacturer does that for everything, and it just doesn’t feel as novel.
It also meant that the only weapons with explosive elemental damage now is torgue, and I don’t like that. I liked having a S&S machine gun with explosive rounds, or a maliwan explosive sniper rifle.

Yeh, a Jakobs rocket launcher would be neat. It can look like a big cast iron cannon :stuck_out_tongue:
A Jacob’s automatic rifle would be nice as well. The rifles never felt right to me, especially the gatling. Having an automatic jacobs gatling wouldn’t come into conflict with the western theme, as they did have gatling guns near the end of the 19th century.

@ShuggyTheWrathful: As I kinda like the idea of manufacturer gimmicks, I worked something up. You’ll have to hunt for it, but there was mention of the gimmick being a selectively activated feature and not a default-only thing. Like Maliwan weapons becoming E-Tech, for instance, with the inherently increased ammunition consumption.

1 Like

BL2 is my favorite game of all time. Fun to play and the community was great. Still is in fact, as I still play it from time to time.

I know this is a wishlist thread so I’ll phrase this as a wish - I really, really, really wish it has no PVP. None. It should be fun and entertaining and totally devoid of the “kill or be killed” mentality.

2 Likes

I say there should be but NOTHING like how division does in the dark zone. I say nothing about it should give anything better than what pve does

Tediore was terrible in my opinion the reload gimmick was terrible maybe it’s because I have a frequent tendency to reload so the only thing Tediore is good for is losing ammo plus for the most part their stats were just fair. I liked them on bl1 and didn’t like them in bl2/tps.

I also found assault rifles to be pretty useless in bl2 vs bl1. I used them all the time but in bl2 I used them the least, this might be in part to the gimmicks. Jacobs too slow to reload short capacity. Vladoff accuracy sucks. Bandits don’t do enough damage. Torque is too rare. No Hyperion or Tediore.

I myself don’t particularly like some of the gimmicks but I think it’s mainly because the weapons themselves take a hit in other areas that make them a little blah sometimes. I might would use a bandit AR more frequently if the reload and FR was a little better, 120 in the clip with a 9 second reload just doesn’t do it for me. If they keep the gimmicks I’ll be fine with it, I’m hoping they do tweek a few things here and there to make all manufacturers a very viable option for any vault hunter to choose from. Give cool options but keep in mind not to take too much away from what makes you want to use them, good all around balance and usability.

3 Likes

Yeah, assault rifles are pretty bad in TPS and BL2, as the manufacturer gimmicks don’t work for them that well.
I rarely use them.

Getting less EXP from trivial missions would be nice as well. I keep overleveling, because I really want to do the side quests, and even if they are trivial they give several thousand EXP. You get less exp from killing underleveled enemies, why not less exp from underleveled missions?

1 Like

Other than bandit being off balance, I think most other nailed it.

Jakobs, torgue, vladof and maliwan are just about right with all types imo. Hyperion snipers could be faster or more powerful but I think the rest are good. Tediore shotguns could use a boost the the rest are good. Bandit launchers and songs I think are good, the rest need to be rebalaced.

3 Likes

I totally agree with ya on the points you mentioned. That’s what I meant with tweeking a few things here and there. Most items are pretty balanced and serviceable except here and there. I’m sure a decent amount of stuff will get fiddled with in the next two or three years when they really get into the games development a little further.

Way, way back in the day, I started doodling a couple of concepts of what the guns would look like if every manufacturer made every weapon. I gave up after a while, but I still reckon a Maliwan Shotgun or Assault Rifle would be pretty cool. Some of them would be a little odd, like a Jakobs SMG or a Hyperion Rocket Launcher, but things like Torgue Snipers, Bandit Lasers, and Dahl Shotguns would be great to see.

I also really like the manufacturer gimmick thing of BL2 compared to BL1 - I’ve always felt plain stat increases were a little boring.

Make Brick a playable character again and change his Ult to Tiny Tina sitting on his shoulder throwing explosives

1 Like

That sounds terrible compared to his previous action skill. I liked running up to a Devastator and punching it to death with corrosive fists.

I rather not have repeats. I’d prefer seeing new vault hunters, especially considering the alien’s final message in TPS.

3 Likes

Vault Hunters

  • Having 8 character classes in the main game. I personally think too many playable characters would reduce the variety to make builds for each class while keeping them distinct.

  • Give them more mobility compared to the Vault Hunters in BL2, i.e., higher movement speed, and able to climb ledges.

  • The new wave of Vault Hunters able to have short conversations with the NPCs in BL3, it could help on defining their personalities and the relationship with the NPCs.


Game Mechanics

  • Implement the clamber game mechanics like Doom 2016 and Crysis 2/3.
  • Each Vault Hunter will have different climbing speed and range to reach a ledge.

  • I.E., large and heavy characters are slower to climb the ledges; lighter and more athletic characters have faster climbing speed; and characters with longer limbs will have a longer range to grab the ledge.

  • It makes platforming easier and fun.

  • The debuff elements/mechanics being more optional and less of a clutch in UVHM.

  • Shock Element:

  • Increase the shock damage over time duration. It is impossible to complete the Shock DoT BAR challenge in BL2 OP levels.
  • Give an option to use action skill button to command character class’ pet like Deathtrap to do some actions.

User Interface

  • Better UI design for the menus in BL3. The menu UI design in BL2 is clunky and not PC user-friendly.

  • Make the DLC map pins highlightable on the Fast Travel menu, it’s tedious to scroll through the map list to find the desired destination.

  • Make a button sorting locations by game content and quests.

  • Color code the maps or map pins to indicate the game content.

  • Make a button to auto-refill ammo in the ammo vending machine menu.

  • Make a button to auto-refill health in the medical vending machine menu.


NPCs

  • Enemies having more advanced/complex AI behaviors instead of being bullet sponges in UVHM, e.g., melee oriented enemies like the psychos have better mobility.

  • Bosses having more combat phases and attacks instead of soaking up bullets. It would make the boss battles being fun and less of a chore.

  • Friendly NPCs in missions able to revive downed players.

  • More NPC-NPC dialogues, I’m sick of hearing BL1 Vault Hunters having the same conversation every time I entered into the Crimson Raider HQ.


Level Design

  • More verticality and platforming for actual arenas and “pseudo” arenas.

  • Please don’t make arenas like Muderlin’s Temple, the traps are annoying and it is a nightmare for the potential high mobility character classes in BL3.

  • Fix the uneven surface issues, make these surfaces behave like stairs or something.

  • Make the playable characters able to properly aligned with ladders, it’s kinda annoying for players to have to jump down from a ladder and re-align themselves after being blocked by a ceiling while almost climbing up to the top . And speaking of ladders, it would be cool if players able to slide down the ladders instead of climbing downwards.

  • Every raid boss arena must have a chamber filled with chests to be looted by players after the raid boss fight. Triptych Games who developed both Captain Scarlett and Hammerlock DLCs didn’t add them next to the raid boss arenas. Which is why there aren’t much incentives to fight Hyperius, Master Gee and Voracidous other than the Seraph weapons and crystals.

  • Resettable red chests and other lootable objects in the raid boss arena. Similar to the lootable objects in Digistruct Peak, they will be reset when players pay Eridium/ Moonstone equivalent currencies to re-enter the raid boss arena.

  • Introduce the Crimson Lance Chest equivalents in BL3. These chests will have higher chance to drop/ spawn Pearlescents and more Legendaries compared to the Red Chests. These chests can be found in the final boss arenas, raid boss arenas and raid maps like Digistruct Peak.


Guns and Gears

  • Proper scaling for all guns and gears in all game modes.

  • All high rarity red-text gears like Legendaries and Pearlescents being viable and useful.

  • Introducing the jet boots/ jet packs as the successor of the Oz Kits. Think of them like shields with improved Oz Kit mechanics.

  • Introduce Melee Weapon Mods in BL3.

  • These melee weapon mods affect the players’ melee attack behavior, e.g., melee attack speed, melee damage, attack range, elemental effects, able to fire projectiles, ability to stun, and making knockbacks on enemies.

  • They also change part of the character’s melee weapon cosmetically like the class mods.

  • Assault Rifles:
  • Reduce or remove the critical hit penalties.

  • Give the AR accuracy accessory tighter projectile spread and Type B critical damage bonus.

  • Shotguns:
  • Make the shotguns with critical damage accessory that fire pure splash projectiles able to score critical hits.
  • Rocket Launchers:
  • Introduce blast radius as part of the rocket launcher stats.

  • RL parts from different manufacturers with having different effects on the blast radius, e.g., Torgue RL parts will increase the rocket’s blast radius, and Jakobs RL parts will reduce them.

  • General Gun Parts:
  • More sight/ scope variants for ARs, SMGs, shotguns and pistols.

  • Red-Text Weapons having more unique gun part designs besides the paint jobs. Basically, the gun parts have the gun’s unique effect will have a slightly different design.

  • Make more barrel variants for each gun types and manufacturers.

  • Make all critical damage accessories give Type B critical damage bonus.

  • Jakobs:
  • Introduce Jakobs RLs in BL3. The Jakobs RLs will have high base damage, fast projectile speed and the only RLs that can score critical hits at the expense of reduced splash damage, small blast radius, small magazine size, and increased recoil. Think of them as a mix of a harpoon gun and a cannon.

  • Reduce the size of the wheel magazines for the Jakobs ARs, they are too big and they clipped through characters like Maya.

  • Make a Legendary Jakobs AR with matching Jakobs barrel.

  • Torgue:
  • Increase the projectile speed for the Torgue guns.

  • Reintroduce SMGs and sniper rifles.

  • If the Torgue guns able to use other elements instead of only explosions in BL3, they will have high base and splash damage at the cost of low elemental effect chance.

  • Bandit & S&S Munitions:
  • Reintroduce S&S Munitions guns in BL3.

  • Both Bandit and S&S Munitions guns need more distinct traits while keeping their large magazine size and reload speed penalty traits.

  • Make S&S Munitions guns having faster projectile speed and Bandit guns having slower projectile speed.

  • S&S Munitions guns are more accurate than Bandit guns.

  • Give S&S Munitions the reduced ammo consumption gimmick like the Vladof launchers. Each gun types have different Nth shots that will not consume ammo.

  • Bandit guns need higher damage potential to compete with other manufacturers. Either increase their base damage or the projectile count. Think of them firing shrapnel, nails or any sharp objects they could find.

  • Bandit doesn’t manufacture sniper rifles and S&S Munitions doesn’t manufacture rocket launchers.

  • Tediore:
  • Tediore shotguns are generally underwhelming compared to other manufacturers’ shotguns, also their chucking damage isn’t potent as the other Tediore gun types like SMGs and RLs.

  • Increase both magazine size and the base damage for the shotguns. And also factor pellet counts into the chucking damage output.

  • Some Tediore gun parts like their shotgun and RL barrels should affect the gun stats instead of none.

  • Atlas and Hyperion:
  • Don’t give Atlas guns the Hyperion’s reverse recoil, just make them the all-rounder guns in BL3.

  • Hyperion corporation being operated by sentient Loaders , this would be a decent narrative explanation on keeping Hyperion guns in BL3.

  • Give the Hyperion sniper barrel critical damage bonus like the Hyperion pistol barrel.

  • Make the Hyperion sniper rifles able to gradually increase their base or critical hit damage while on ADS other than only increasing the SR’s accuracy.

  • Reintroduce Ogre as a Legendary AR for Atlas.

  • Reintroduce Rain Grenade Mods in BL3.

  • Vladof:
  • Reintroduce Vladof shotguns in BL3. General Vladof shotguns have high fire rates , decent magazine sizes, fast projectile speed, and have decent recoil management. The setback for the shotguns will be the reduced accuracy and lower base damage.
  • Dahl:
  • Give the Dahl sniper rifles the reduced ammo consumption gimmick like the Vladof RLs for mitigation or reduce the burst fire count.
  • Maliwan and Anshin:
  • Reintroduce Maliwan shotguns in BL3. General Maliwan shotguns have decent splash damage, better elemental effects compared to other shotguns, and they have reduced base damage for balancing.

  • Reduce the general Maliwan pistols’ ammo consumption to 1.

  • Either introduce a new grenade mod type for Maliwan in BL3 and return the Transfusion Grenade Mod back to Anshin, or make the Anshin and Maliwan Transfusion Grenades work differently.

  • Anshin Transfusion Grenades will have higher grenade damage, have non-elemental/ explosive variants, and have lower elemental effect damage and chance.

  • Maliwan Transfusion Grenades will have lower grenade damage, do not have non-elemental/ explosive variants, have higher elemental effect damage and chance, longer DoT duration, and the elemental DoTs can heal players like Krieg’s Elemental Empathy skill.

  • Pangolin:
  • Introduce Globe Grenade Mods in BL3.

  • This grenade mod projects an energy bubble/shield after being deployed like Axton’s Phalanx Shield skill. It can be used to protect players from attacking enemies and also trapping enemies in the shield. So it’s more of a utility grenade.

  • Only players will able to walk and shoot through the energy bubble.

  • Energy bubbles can be expired after being deployed for a time duration.

  • Parts of grenade mod will determine the shield health, bubble radius, elemental damage/ resistance, delivery mechanisms, and fuse time.

  • The energy bubble’s health, radius and lifespan can be stacked when additional Globe grenades are thrown at the bubble. This is to avoid possible issues of bugs and glitches caused by enemies being stuck in small intersections between the bubbles.

  • Increase the homing grenades’ traverse speed. Plus the grenades should homed towards enemies who are targeted by players’ reticle instead of homing towards the nearest enemy.

  • Make the Pink Weapon Rarity similar to the Glitch Weapons and Gemstone Weapons instead of the Seraph Weapons. I think the Glitch Weapons and Gemstone Weapons are more unique compare to other weapon rarities as they mostly normal guns with extra gun bonuses. I felt having a third red-text exclusive weapon rarity after Legendaries and Pearlescents is excessive and redundant in BL2.

  • E-Tech:

  • Make all E-Tech weapons not affected by environment if Gearbox is reintroducing that mechanic from TPS. E.g., incendiary DoT from E-Tech weapons works in vacuum, and enemies can be freezed by E-Tech Cryo weapons in warmer atmospheres.

  • E-Tech sniper rifles having increased base damage, elemental effect chance, higher critical hit multiplier and able to deal massive splash damage.

  • Blasters having increased base damage, elemental effect chance, better accuracy, higher critical hit multiplier and able to deal splash damage.

  • Splatguns having faster projectile speed, higher elemental effect chance and damage, and increased base and splash damage. Make the Splatguns with the critical hit accessory able to score critical hits. Or introduce a new E-Tech shotguns in BL3.

  • Plasma Caster barrels having a refined design.


Item Storage

  • Bigger backpack/bank capacity.

  • Double the sniper ammo capacity.

  • Increase the shotgun ammo capacity up to 300-400.

  • Increase the RL ammo capacity up to 44-50.

  • Give 2 grenade slots and change the ** weapon swap button to swapping grenades** without having to switch them through the inventory menu.

  • Increase the equipped weapon slots up to 6.

3 Likes

That is a great deal of text. I just have one thing to add - can we please get more background on the Dahl corporation? Please? Pretty please?? Also Dahl shotguns.

1 Like

@SentySent: I’ll have to red your latest on an actual monitor, not an anti-monitor, but I will say that in addition to my proposed Enhanced Movement System, I may’ve suggested being able to grab ledges as you’re falling – if not, let me rectify that. The core of this has been the frustration that for whatever reason, you end with an undershot jump arc trajectory a bit short of solid ground, impacting the cliff face because your foot was equivalently below the clifftop while the rest of your body was above, and being unable to reach out and grab the cliff’s edge to save yourself. Or basically the reverse of THIS:

Unique animations might include:

  • flinging Tediore weapons (and triggering their effect) and reaching out to grab the edge; actual aiming instead of blind-tossing might be something…
  • long guns dangling on slings as you grab the edge
  • one-hand grabbing with your free hand, then holstering the pistol once you’ve got a grip

Re. the FTS map, only show the commonly-accessible warp points, and maybe DLC-specific icons so nobody need ask who has what DLC(s).

Ammo VMs definitely need a refill-all Byron, especially when time is an issue. Health isn’t an issue since everyone has health regen and health can be found literally everywhere, but why not?

Re. NPCs reviving you, PLEASE. Brick in Thousand Cuts, anyone?

Re. Bandit, maybe add x2 to their large magazine and slow reload. Kinda makes sense considering the pros/cons of the extra projectile – decreased accuracy, increased ammo consumption, more bullets, stronger total damage (vs. weaker projectile damage). Fire Rate is debatable, tho – x2 lowers it, tho it may not matter since you’re throwing out more lead…

Re. Vladof shotguns, to think that I mentioned them as a joke, namely in discussing the Dahl Lascaux…

Re. red-text and rarity, what about the element-restricted ones being unique and not Legendary/whatever?

Why would vladof shotguns be a joke? They worked just fine in BL1.

1 Like

Didn’t know they existed, and was saying that the Lascaux was basically one.