What's the point of TVHM?

I’m struggling to see the point of TVHM in BL3.

In BL2, by the time you finished the first playthrough, you were typically at level 27-30. You’d then do TVHM which would bring you up to level 50 by the end.

In BL3, you’re already at the level cap after completing the first playthrough, which renders TVHM rather pointless doesn’t it?

Having completed the first playthrough, the DLC, circles of slaughter and the Maliwan Takedown, our group already has banks full of legendary gear.

Yes you can crank up the mayhem and treat it as a “challenge” but, with no further levelling and a bag already full of good gear, there seems very little point in running through a story we’ve only just done the first time.


I have no idea what tvmh does I don’t feel any difference once you turn mayhem on

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Its only purpose is you can reset the story. So it’s more like UVHM in previous games, but without any changes in enemies health/shield. Mayhem is the end-game mode.

People complained in the past about having to run through the story multiple times. So GBX listened and basically made it optional. When I do a run I’m rarely anywhere near L50 by the end of Normal mode, so I’m quite happy to do another run in TVHM. But I don’t have to if I don’t want to, which is cool.

Running the story again has the benefit of leveling up quicker I believe, since story missions tend to give a lot of XP. I’m usually in the L30s by the time I finish the first campaign so I prefer to do that. But it’s also fun to run the campaign again with quality gear which you’re more likely to have on the second attempt.


You can rerun the quests/play at max level at a higher difficulty without Mayhem modifiers. More appealing to me than M2+. And I’m happy they didn’t twist my arm and push me into it.


Sadly, TVHM has lost its significance in this iteration of Borderlands.

I’m a campaign player rather than an endgame player. I liked the general increase in difficulty that TVHM and UVHM provided. But most of all I loved the progression. I enjoy striving to get the next skill point to make my character that bit more effective.

Unlike shure , I consistently finish Normal at around L45. I’ve always considered the CoSs to be part of a playthrough, as they were in the previous games, so once I’ve done those I’m well on the way to L50, leaving me no “progression” for TVHM at all.

I play co-op regularly with a group of friends. We have done the “endgame activities”, including the Takedown, at M4. I did the minimum to build one character that could handle the difficulty and that was it. I don’t “collect guns”, so endgame is over for me. I find constantly repeating the same little bit of game pointless. I’m currently running through Normal with a Brawler Amara with the intention of punching as many enemies to death as possible. That’s my idea of fun :slightly_smiling_face:

Again, I think shure is absolutely right. There were those that wanted to get to end game without TVHM. With the rise in popularity of games such as Destiny and The Division (the games-as-a-service model), GBX obviously wanted to tap into this format. Pure speculation but I’ve noticed parts of the game that have under-levelled missions and rewards for their placement in the game. I do wonder if the game started out in the traditional BL manner but changed during development to move to be more endgame oriented.

Whereas I’m pleased for the endgame players, GBX has scuppered the campaign players. However, I do enjoy BL3 gameplay mechanics, so, with my solo characters, I’m leaving them after killing Tyrene on Normal and I’m praying for a level cap rise to give some progression in TVHM, at which point I shall return to them.

A final thought. I was still playing BL2 and BL GOTY Enhanced when BL3 was launched. The “classic” format was enough to keep me playing . I hope GBX have done their research and confirmed endgame is the way to go to sustain a long-term player base.


I wished they would have just made normal mode resettable and removed subsequent playthroughs. I see no reason to have a second playthrough when an increased difficulty, more/different enemies and better item drops could be solved with (Mayhem) modifiers in normal mode.


I am much like you I love doing campaigns and farming for gear is not really my thing any more and get bored easily now (did far to much in destiny history and grinding for levels with no apparent end in sight )

My first playthrough as Amara I was level 50 by the end of normal. I did all side quests and got a platinum trophy. My 2nd character Zane didn’t have that same issue. I ignored all side quests and finished TVHM on level 48. I do feel like Annointed drops are more frequent on TVHM.

They certainly seem to show up in vending machines with more frequency.


True Vault Hunters have access to the true gear. NVH is about building composition, TVH is about tempering and refinement, Mayhem is about finding the superior tools and polishing refined composition.

Mayhem 4 baby, it is the current horizon. Edge of the world. You make it here to the edge like we are, the whole journey in one’s scope and you’ll know what the point of TVHM is - a right of passage.



Nail on the head. Your experience and situation is almost exactly the same as mine. Played BL2 (and now 3) since 2012 with the same regular trio and, whilst I have enjoyed BL3, I have to admit that BL2 is still superior in almost every way.

For me, the issue isn’t difficulty or, indeed gear, it’s progression. I want the next skill point :slightly_smiling_face: One resettable campaign with optional modifiers would be fine, provided there are skill points to be had for playing it. That’s what’s missing in the game at the moment.

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It’s not just wanting the next skill point, it’s that the levelling gradually renders your gear obsolete and forces you to look for new stuff.

As it is, I have such a collection of level 50 gear that I’d have no real need or impetus to look for new stuff whilst playing through TVHM.

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Really? I have 10 Legendary guns, 2 grenades, 2 class mods, 2 relics… anything else I was carrying prior was inferior and I’m always looking for that next piece of equipment to make an existing piece obsolete.

Currently M4 DLC pew! Pew!

Absolutely agreed! It’s everything that comes with leveling that I miss. But I am particularly fond of skil points :smiley:

I find Mayhem made TVHM redundant for me. At least if level 50 is the cap.

I’m one of those players who enjoys levelling up more than farming/building.

Levelling up isn’t linear. It gets increasingly difficult. To me that’s the challenge. Being stuck at 50 feels unnecessarily limiting. I have tons and tons of legendaries. MH is getting boring. I don’t even build properly. I spend the points as best I can and use what I think is the best/coolest gear. I can’t solo MTD at MH4. More accurately, I can’t do it without investing the effort to find the right gear and YouTube videos to do so. I would rather spend my time running the campaign again with the challenge of levelling up.

That doesn’t appeal to everyone, and GBX has to try and appeal to many types of gamers. I think that’s why they left TMHM in, although it’s not as fun without levelling up.

I’m on my third character/playthrough. I will do all four. I’ll have a band full of legendaries, and only MH to make the game more challenging. And really if you just pay attention and load according to the MH, it’s really not that difficult. Not entirely true, the bosses and badasses etc. are more frequent, this usually leads to time consumption and ammo management. Which isn’t a fun part of the game.

So what’s the point TVHM? Not sure anymore. I would have been just as happy not having MH and stayed with levelling up. I enjoyed MH at first. But now it’s like “yawn, another legendary”. I have six freakin legendary com for Moze. There’s very little to distinguish them from one another. I also have four epic coms that are very handy. If they varied more, great, but they don’t. OK, off topic.
Like TVHM, MH is fine, but it’s growing boring, would rather TVHM and level up.

The one advantage of TVHM in BL3 is that you can quite happily do a whole bunch of side quests and not worry about getting something desirable at less than max level, even if you only ever play a single character - TVHM is not far away, you can easily get to level 50 before you start it, and now you can play whatever you want at max level.

It’s basically BL1 Pt.2.5 with a reset option.


I’m using it now to get one of the story mission shields (radiation one) at level 50. I got one when I was in the 20’s previously, but I need a level 50 for my build now. It could be a requirement when UVHM comes out, if it does, but I’m not sure. I’m just doing it on FL4K, not the others.

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That has zero to do with TVHM and isn’t true if you don’t have Mayhem on. Turn Mayhem off and I guaratee you’ll get below level gear drops, and if you tried another playthrough not everything would scale to your level.

It’s the Mayhem levels that scale everything to your level. Turning on Mayhem at any level automatically scales all enemies and loot to your level. Turn it off and it is what it is.

As far as I can tell there is absolutely no difference of any kind between Normal and TVHM with Mayhem off. Beating the game in normal and then starting a new game in TVHM only resets mission quests. It kind of scales with you, but not really. You’ll still find above level and below level gear and enemies.

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