He’s talking about the combo, not the ult.
Forget rath at least he needs to get close first.
Marquis shuts everything down from across the map while hiding behind geometry so you can’t return fire
Said well, but heres the thing.
In randoms, rath runs up and before you can do much, he hits you with his abilities from in front.
A good rath in premades is either A: really good bait. Saw a rath when going against a group of 4 (of course my team was all low leveel randoms, go figure), taking a base solo. I come up, thinking, “well, he doesn’t have his ult yet, so…” but before I could get to the rath, caldarius comes up from behind, blinds me, and they both kill me within 2 seconds. I spawn, come out go back towards the base and the same exactt combo happens to me.
But he can also be B: An assassin, like he’s labeled. In premades you often have large fights. He comes up from behind, knocks up, crossblades, and then ults into the mass of enemies. No, rath doesn’t instantly die, because he’s life stealing from everyone there, and he’s gaining health, not losing it. (well , probably losing a little) And he doesn’t need to solo these guys, because there’s a fight ensuing. You just have to have teammates that can finish people off while they’re getting both distracted by and beateen to a bloody pulp by rath.
The second stategy works extremely well in incursion and meltdown because you can LF minions to (if I am correct) for even more survivability. I’ve gone premade vs premade, and see master of raths do rediculous damage because they know how to play rath as the one combo assassin he is.
Yeah my main point is many characters can 100-0 you with their combo, although Rath’s is among the easiest to use.
Without the combo Rath is pretty tame.
- You can only keep so much distance and Catalytic Flash has pretty good range considering map layouts.
- Quick melee really only works consistently with Mellka or Thorn’s improved quick melee
- The other team can also communicate
- You can strike first and use your skill first but it’ll get cancelled out by Catalytic Flash, it happens to me all the time with Mellka’s Spike; I hit Spike and I’m in the air yet I still get knocked up and my poison isn’t even on the ground. Your timing needs to be so perfect it’s not even funny. Yet if Rath missing he just sits out for a bit waiting for Catalytic Flash’s cooldown.
- Again, quick melee is very inconsistent with getting out of the combo. I’d be surprised if anyone can succeed more than half the time unless you’re Mellka or Thorn.
Rath would be most dangerous in actual tourney play. One tiny team positioning mistake and Rath can easily get a double kill if not more. Then it’s 5v3 or worse. When you get into a big team battle, attention is focused and Rath can easily sneak in undetected. Late game is where games are won and having 2+ people out for basically a minute is HUGE. The majority of characters don’t have a hard CC, and it’s quite a common situation where the character with the hard CC isn’t in range or is getting Ult-ed by Rath. Matches are long and there will be times any team gets distracted and leaves open an opportunity for Rath. You’re also neglecting the fact the other team is communicating and using teamwork as well and will have specific strategies to get Rath into opportunities to get double or triple kills. Lastly, the other team is very much limited in their ability to push because of merely the presence of Rath since if you push up JUST a bit too far, Rath will take you out. Thus, Rath has a great affect on map control, which is something else that is HUGE factor he brings to the table.
Ambra’s Extinction Event (Impact Crater helix)
Deande’s Blink Storm
El Dragón’s Clothesline and En Fuego Dragon Splash
Galilea’s Shield Toss and Desecrate (Vortex mutation)
ISIC’s Plasma Dash (Hold it Right There helix)
Kleese’s Black Hole
Miko’s Cloud of Spores (Sporeshock helix)
Montana’s Lumberjack Dash and Mansformation
Rath’s Catalytic Smash
S&A’s Fetch and Tag Team finishing knockup
Toby’s Arc Mine (Sorry I Broke Your Wrists helix and Arc Vortex mutation)
It’s also important to note that almost all of his power comes from his ultimate. The closest comparison I can think of to Rath in another moba is League’s Katarina. She similarly relies heavily on her ultimate which does heavy aoe damage but is interrupted easily by cc since she can’t do anything while casting it. She’s never played competitively, because while her ult has good damage potential, it’s very rare to get it off aganst an organized team because any cc will stop it. Same deal with Rath’s ult. If there is a Rath on the enemy team, 100% at least one person will save their hard cc to stop it, at at least 2 people will have hard ccs that counter Rath and won’t stand side by side to be silenced, and there isn’t really anything Rath’s team can do to stop ISIC’s Plasma Dash or Kelvin’s Sumblimate from cutting the Rath ult short, especially if they’re being saved for that purpose.
A lot of those characters with hard CC wouldn’t be able to stop Rath’s Ult. For example, Alani’s geyser takes some time to go off let alone needing to predict where Rath will be (not too hard when he is already in his Ult) so that wouldn’t stop a large majority of damage from the Ult. Deande’s Ult also takes some time. Or Ambra needing to be level 10 for access to hard CC. Toby is usually in the back line and Rath attacks the front line usually so hitting Rath with arc mine is not so easy and he may not even have line of sight on Rath.
I just listed all of those because you erroneously assumed most characters can’t stop Rath’s ult. It’s not uncommon at all to have two of the following on a team: ISIC, S&A, Montana, Kelvin, Boldur, and Galilea; and these are all frontline fighters who (with the exceptions of S&A and Gali) have pretty easy to land and mostly unblockable cc that they can reliably use on Rath.
And most characters can’t stop Rath’s Ult with hard CC as several of the hard CCs you listed won’t stop Rath’s Ult in time to stop the damage.
Rath’s ult stops as soon as he’s cc’d.
Heres my problem with rath is that it take little skill to use him yet he destroys. Meanwhile complicated characters who players know how to use well can easily wrecked by rath. Should not be the case. I say while using his ult he moves slower. That and reduce range of the knock up ability. Hits way to far away
I really couldn’t agree more. Overall he has an OK balance, but his knockup/silence combined with the ridiculously high DPS of his ult definitely put him over into overpowered territory. Yes, some people can escape it because of something built into their character other than a skill, but most people don’t have any means of escape outside of their skills, which they A) can’t be expected to save for the entire game and B) can’t use anyways if Rath has chosen his silence helix, which he obviously always will.
It is short to medium range you need to spec into longer range.
@Battleborn he is built around punishing people 1v1 with no teamwork literally any cooperation and smart game play neutralizes Rath.
Lol no. His smash has a fairly long range that gets even longer at level 6, and most characters don’t have a way to stop it via teamwork. Unless you have CC that’s cooled down AND you managed to avoid the silence the only way to get him off of a teammate is to run into the buzzsaw and try to melee him away, which isn’t exactly a bright idea. How many times out of 10 do you think you can get hit by a smash and then escape the buzzsaw WITHOUT the help of a double jump or propelling melee? Because I’d bet that it’s less than 50% of the time.
Rath is probably the character I die least to since I play understanding exactly what rath is about literally his hands go up I’m moving left or right. I see him running at me I’m calling out for a cc. I do not play with any less then one friend and we play to supplement a team. His cross blade doesn’t scare me and his life steal won’t save him literally one trick noobs stomping pony.
It’s also a basically no risk play for Rath because if he misses Catalytic Flash, he just waits for the cooldown to try again. Rath can totally win games just by getting a double kill late which isn’t very hard considering there will probably be at least 1 teamfight where your team is focused on that. There’s no other character that affects the game so much just by his presence alone. You can’t have anyone go anywhere by themselves for a flank for example. Rath causes the other team to be so careful and one ever so slight mistake could be the game while on Rath’s end, his combo is pretty much skill-less and completely safe (especially with teamwork on that team’s end).
Pretty much this. If I have ANY sort of hard CC I’ll make sure to save it for Rath’s next dreadwind attempt on my teammates. Had a match where I clothesline knocked him up out of it 6 times or so and he just ragequit. Sucks 1v1 but with any co-ordination Rath (and most assassins) drop off in usefulness.
W/o any help he sucks though.
Some characters can actually out DPS his ult straight up, but it’s pretty situational.
Had a Rath catch me just after I popped En Feugo with Dragon and won a straight fist fight against the dreadwind. Felt good.
Rath broadcasts when he is about to ult. If you don’t see it coming it is because you don’t know how Rath plays (and hence you have no business complaining about him).
The instant you see Rath raise his swords above his head he is about to knock someone up. And he’s going to follow up that knock up with his ultimate.
If it is your job to CC him, just start casting your CC on him the second his swords go up in the air.
You claimed that Alani’s geyser can’t stop Rath’s ult, but honestly Alani’s geyser is one of the few spells in the game that has the exact right timing exactly to stop Rath’s ult if Rath picks Alani as his target because she can cast geyser when he raises his swords and geyser will come out just in time to exactly stop Rath’s spin right after he starts it.
In short… get good.
I know Rath’s tell. The problem is there’s plenty of areas you have to go where you can’t avoid his Catalytic Flash. For example, if he’s on your team’s perch on Overgrowth, you have to go to him. I haven’t played Alani enough (maybe 10 games at best) to have even tried Geyser on him as Rath has surprised me the few times I’ve been could in the his combo. However, I do Spike with Mellka BEFORE Catalytic Flash and the silence or knockup cancels out my skill and my poison doesn’t even go down. I’m not sure if Alani’s Geyser would get canceled out or not. Lastly, I was talking about if Alani is not in Rath’s death combo and she wants to help her teammate(s) with her hard CC, chances are Rath will have done his damage before Alani’s Geyser kicks in. So just saying stop his Ult with hard CC is not viable quite often. Simply put blind back on Catalytic Flash like it was originally.
If rath is in your window why are you walking up those stairs? If you say itsomething because you don’t know he is there you are messing up its a strategy game. The window is translucent. If he is jumping on box precast your cc or leave.