Between the two, which would you say is the “better” class in terms of DPS potential?
Put those hands together.
Separate, Spellshot is dramatically stronger and more versatile. Spore Warden has gun damage and little else without incredibly specific gear.
In terms of Dope Pope Sass?
I’d say Spellshot. Sparkles and glitter make everything loads less bitter.
Spellshot, unless factoring play the angles. Spore has pretty bad formula on it’s own, and the vast majority of it’s damage is locked to the tier 5 skills and capstone. Real all or nothing class.
Respectfully, I disagree.
Spore Warden is the new Fl4k imo: without the right gear and build, it’s a crapshoot. Squishy as hell and lacking in almost every way. With the right gear, though, Spore Warden is a damage haus. As a secondary class, Spore Warden is fantastic at buffing Graveborn’s companion damage or Clawbringer’s gun damage, and being the only class with a skill to beef up ability damage makes him a solid choice for multiple builds, primary or secondary.
Don’t get me wrong: Spore Warden is still going to get trounced against a Spellshot in 1v1, especially after Nature’s Wrath got nerfed out of viability. It’s still a class much more useful than “tier 5 and capstone” only.
I’m interested to see what the seventh class looks like and how it will synergize with the warden.
Companion damage is a pretty easy stat to get with myth rank and Frenzied Wrath. You can throw in more companion damage from enchants if you wanted to, but I don’t find that to be a huge selling point for Spore anymore since the rest of its formula for companions isn’t that good.
As for gun damage, Spore’s overall damage formula is pretty bad. 20% gun damage is an armor roll. Gun damage is an easy stat to get and other classes have better multiplier spreads than Spore until you factor in PTA and Headhunter, which kinda locks you into capping spore in whatever build you use it for, which is pretty limiting.
It’s the same exact value as Exploit their weakness. Nerfed out viability is a massive overstatement, the skill is in line with similar skills of its type now.
A spore without WON and Headhunter is just a class that gives you an armor roll of gun damage and pet revive, and considering shroom’s AI is even worse than FL4K pets and it doesn’t have the luxury of gamma burst to keep it off the ground, that’s not something I’d spend a multiclass on.
Companion damage via Myth Rank gets capped very quickly, and you can’t tell me that Spore Warden’s ability to buff companion damage more than 100% through crits isn’t useful in multiple builds. With crit companion builds, plus gun damage (which also buffs certain companions), plus crit chance for both you and companions, I can’t help but feel like your statement about Spore Warden damage being locked in tier 5 and capstone is every bit the level of overstatement that was, admittedly, my comment about Nature’s Wrath being nerfed out of viability (although, I maintain that cutting the damage potential for Nature’s Wrath by almost half was egregious).
I’m not arguing the fact that gun damage is a pretty easy stat to stack up (especially with a couple of Sharksbane rings), but at c35, every little bit counts. You say 20% gun damage isn’t worth your time, but with the crit chance Spore Warden can build that 20% gets a pretty big, consistent amp.
You don’t have to enjoy Spore Warden, my friend, and I’m not trying to convince you to. All I’m saying is the Warden is worth more than you originally gave him credit. If you want to play sometime, I’d be happy to show you exactly how not all or nothing the Spore Warden class really is.
I think Sporewarden is perfectly viable and strong and C35, but if I were to rank classes by strength, I would say Sporewarden and Clawbringer are probably the weaker classes now.
Sporewarden has 2 main focus - guns and companions. I think boombumr has already elaborated quite abit on companion damage and its relative lack of value. It also doesn’t help that the strongest companion builds are those that utilize the spell-based companions, which are better served by Spellshot or Graveborn.
Sporewarden is a decent gun class. Problem is Eagle Eye is kinda weak and Called Shot pretty much useless. Quiver is very nice for the mag size bonus (but unfortunately diminished by the many readily available sources of mag size), but the ammo regen really needed to be stronger, cos to run any sort of infinite mag build, you still need the Last Gasp (which are once more, better served by Spellshot or Graveborn). Bullseye is a hefty boost, but unfortunately, gun crit chance is kinda the least valuable crit chance, and its hardly sufficient to land consistent crits. The real thrust of Spore’s skill tree comes from Wrath and Headhunter, which contribute to fairly valuable multipliers. Then of course, you have Play the Angles, which is incredibly powerful, but ultimately niche - it is very unreliable unless you play Stabbomancer (who unfortunately lacks any consistent means to proc Wrath). The fact that Spore’s good skills are located in T5 and 6 hurts his versatility as well, as Spore without Wrath brings little to the table.
Spore Warden’s best skill is probably Medicinal Mushroom, which has saved my butt more times than I can count. However, Brrzerker’s Relentless Rage is just far better from my experience.
Sporewarden’s problem is that as a class with a clear niche in boosting gun power and viability, Spellshot and Brr-zerker are almost always the better option to multiclass with. They are much tankier, have better QoL and have either equal or much better DPS. Like Morticulturalist is a good gun build, but Brr-reaver and Deadshot are much stronger. Mistdancer can be quite strong with PtA shenanigans, but in terms of consistent performance, its hard to beat Frostshivver’s FTS uptime or Trapscallion’s ridiculous DPS (and QoL).
I’ve been a spore main up until recently, playing a companion build. I’m not pulling this stuff out of my behind, Spore just doesn’t offer anything that other classes don’t unless you go deep (although I would be remiss if I didn’t shoutout Quag’s Dradwind build which does leverage the strengths early tree spore has).
Gun companions and class feat companions scale off of different crit chances, so building for one is detrimental to the other. Also, both guns and companions have a base crit of 5%, meaning even taking every single possible crit chance buff you can get (which would be wildly impractical without a sav editor) would net you about 40% crit chance at the most.
The only direct damage increase Spore has before tier 5 are Eagle Eye and Affinity. Eagle is literally a passive roll from armor or rings. It’s a fairly low amount.
I don’t struggle with spore, and no class is truly bad in WL. However, if you don’t take those final skills in the tree, it really doesn’t offer that much in comparison to the other classes. Spore just doesn’t have a good damage formula without those skills.
The point is not to get an obscenely high crit chance. Spec into Kindred Heart and Thrill of the Hunt, add in a Joint Training amulet, and everyone is doing big, fat damage without ever even touching tier 5. And for what it’s worth, I’m not interested in buffing the mushroom companion: it’s trash, through and through. On that, I think we can agree. That’s why I named mine “Sporrible” on one build and “Leo DeCrapio” on another.
Brrzerker main and Warden secondary, spec into Affinity, and add an armor that gives ability damage and bonus points into Affinity, and the warden has a monstrous blizzard that never stops.
You don’t have to like the Spore Warden’s damage formula anymore. All I’m saying is I’m still running volatile gear on c35 with mine, and I’m cleaning house everywhere I go. To that end, I will say, that Spore Warden’s Boinking enchantment is necessary to make several builds truly viable, and with it being one of the rarest enchantments to roll, getting it can be a frustrating waste of time.
I think we can find common ground, though, in saying that Spore Warden is a good class, but it’s probably the most dependent on specific gear with good rolls and strong enchants. For these reasons, I’m curious to see what the 7th class has to offer in terms of synergy with the Warden.
I wouldn’t disagree there.
Just FYI though, Joint Training only activates when the mushroom crits. Things that proc from companion damage like Joint Training and Claw armor only proc off of class feats, not feriores or other gear based companions.
I haven’t found that to be the case with my builds.
It’s a tough one to test, to be sure, so I’ll have to get back to you on that one.
Frenzied Wrath is another good one for companion builds. Doesn’t work quite the same, obviously, but it’s a solid choice, regardless.