Whiskey Foxtrot Doesn't Need Full Auto

I’ve played as Foxtrot almost exclusively since I first started playing as him, and I don’t believe Foxtrot having the option to hold the trigger to fire would be a good idea. At least without it being an option in-game.
I should probably also mention that the accuracy issues may be more of a console problem since controllers are less precise.

To show that I have a good amount of experience playing as Foxtrot (at least I think), I’ve played as him for 126 out of 193 hours playing Battleborn, or 282 out of 415 PvP matches + 58 out of105 PvE missions played.

The two reasons I’ve seen for Foxtrot being able to fire continuously by holding down the trigger :
1.) It can be physically uncomfortable/painful to press the trigger so many times as Whiskey Foxtrot in an extended game session.
2.) It doesn’t make sense compared to other characters who should also have semi-automatic weapons like Benedict and Marquis who still have the ability to fire repeatedly when holding down the trigger.

Now I can say that both of these reasons are completely legitimate, and I really can’t deny the truth of the former (my fingers hurt after playing as him for a few hours straight the first time), and the argument made by the comparison in the latter, but I’d like to add a bit more to the discussion from my experience playing as the clone “defect”.

  1. Foxtrot’s Rifle is a precision weapon. It has an incredibly tight spread when fired and the bullets are stacked in a neat, almost perfectly vertical column. The rifle requires a brief pause between bursts in order to maintain this accuracy. Attempting to fire faster than this speed will cause the rifle’s accuracy to drop sharply after the second or third burst. This is true for both the default Tactical Rifle and the Red Dot sight upgrade, but not as strongly applicable to the ACOG sight upgrade.
    ***Wait about a half second after the burst ends. I think it’s the same minimum delay between bursts for all attack speeds despite the difference in burst speed, but I’m not sure.

  2. Firing rapidly also limits your ability to aim by slowing your turn speed, reducing your ability to reacquire a target. This in turn makes it more difficult to land hits small or fast moving targets as you will likely not be able to keep up with the sudden change in location.

  3. Due to the rifle’s burst nature it’s entirely possible to only get partial damage from each burst since each individual bullet needs to hit to deal damage.The increased spread from rapid fire means the bullets are no longer following each other, making it harder to land the full damage from a single burst. Compare this to Marquis’ Bindlebane which is all or nothing.
    ***Increasing attack speed does two things: It causes each individual burst to be completed faster, and reduces the delay before the next burst can be fired. Unless it doesn’t and the burst completing faster gives this impression of having a shorter delay.

  4. These effects compound very quickly and make it difficult to maintain accuracy even at short ranges, so it’s in the player’s best interest not to be to fire as fast as possible unless the target has a wide hitbox and is relatively close. Even if the target’s hitbox is fairly large the spread can get significant enough to reduce the efficiency per burst at range, which can make the difference between killing or missing a fleeing target.

  5. Foxtrot’s goal is to land critical hits as often as possible as well. The hitboxes on most critical hit spots on both Battleborn and PvE enemies can be small and hard to hit especially with both players moving erratically/strafing (which you really should be doing as Foxtrot) but again, but this is again much harder to do with the previously mentioned limits on accuracy. To bring up Marquis again, landing critical hits (in PvP) is more of icing on the cake rather than a necessity as his damage per bullet is significantly higher especially including his passive. Foxtrot’s critical hits are more or less necessary to have reliable kill potential.

  6. Foxtrot’s base reload speed can be slow/frustrating when you need to put out damage. Consider a minion wave you need to clear. You’ll probably still land most of your shots even while firing rapidly, but the damage per bullet isn’t enough to destroy a full wave fast enough. Landing critical hits triples your damage output, meaning you can clear faster.
    *** I recommend quick melees to the face if you’re in a wave clear pinch such as if you need to reload, you can also knock a minion out of turret mode. I think a critical quick melee does 300+ damage.

  7. All in all allowing a full auto function that causes Foxtrot to fire at his maximum, non-ult fire rate would teach bad Foxtrot game play and reduce his performance. Especially with new players who might not know that shot pacing is important to being a successful Foxtrot. That and trying to pace a weapon that can fire in full auto can end up feeling inconsistent.

If you want to test the accuracy for yourself, just enter a private match and check the bullet holes after firing at walls at different ranges. Or you can just watch the bullets themselves. Dark backgrounds are better since the bullets appear to be blue.

I apologize if some of the points were repetitive or unclear. They overlap around the central accuracy theme so I felt I had to cover the smaller parts. Hopefully I didn’t forget anything.

Feel free to leave your opinions and feedback in the comments.

Edit: Whiskey Foxtrot for life. Had to.

Edit 2: Just for clarification, I am assuming that holding the trigger causes him to fire at his maximum possible rate of fire.

Changing the burst from “manual” to auto-burst wouldn’t make it rapid fire. I already click as fast as the gun can burst, it would just save my mouse and very poor condition joints some unneeded strain. There is a reason why I rarely if ever play the semi auto characters.

See this weapon from Black Ops 3. I think the Pharo also has an Auto Burst? I can’t remember.

You could still do your normal click to fire one burst at a time. Or you could keep pressing the button to auto-burst when needed. They could also add a menu option for it, whatever.

Whiskey Foxtrot is my favorite character in the game. He was my main at first, I haven’t played as him quite as much as you. For a reason. My hands hurt. Computer mice are not ergonomic.
My hands often get so strained I can’t even move my fingers, it’ll feel like my joints are frozen. Luckily sies and career choices will probably leave me with arthritis in my hands before I turn 50, if I’m lucky :joy:

Sure, It might encourage some people to play WF in a bad way. But playing him well means that you need some shooter knowledge. Shot pacing is shooter knowledge. People who’d play him bad with auto-burst would probably play him bad anyway.

Sorry if this is a little incoherent.

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You can get really close of full auto with him

I use his legendary (+15% AS), Vow of Zealous Fury (+20% AS), the Jennerit gauntlet (+5% AS) and the four-shot burst helix.
And i’ve no problem with recoil and spread as i’m on PC, i can totally negate them by simulate the recoil wiht my hand, so it will still hurt a bit your fingers after 2 hours playing with him but i find it to be the best build for him, it feel like you have a permanent ult with this.

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Lol hurt from playing video games? Go outside for awhile? Jesus

I tried going outside once. The graphics were terrible.

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This is the best comment I’ve seen today!

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It would be more like Bad juju from Destiny with auto-burst.

Honestly, I feel like Whiskey works better up close aggresively hipfiring, slapping stickies almost directly, and spamming scrap than he does long range precision.
I know that goes against conventional wisdom but hopping around and burst firing go well together.

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Thanks for posting this - very insightful. I agree with your points, and I personally like the slower, less smooth experience of semi auto for WT because it fits his character in comparison to the sleek oh so perfect Oscar Mike. I’ve done some great distance precision stuff with him, much more effectively than Oscar.

The hand weariness is frustrating though. Do you think it would work to use the mouse as if it were auto but still keep the burst fire mechanic? Or would that spoil it?

In general, having played both Whiskey and Mike quite a bit, I still think he merits something of a buff, even though I mostly like his setup.

I gave up on the outside when I realised it’s pay to win :weary:

@SalkinM I would have to disagree with most of what you’ve based your reasoning on - the fact that allowing the player to hold down the mouse/trigger would equate to faster fire rate or less delay between bursts. I play him on ps4 and I will tap that R2 trigger about 3-4 times for every 2 bursts to keep his fire rate at max (mostly just desperately willing him to fire faster lol). Nobody is asking for changes to his rate of fire or burst delay, just the ability to hold down their respective buttons instead of tapping them repeatedly. I honestly don’t mind the burst fire and probably wouldn’t use it myself, but when people complain that their health is affected then there really is no counter argument. Those people have asked for a simple QoL fix that would completely alleviate their problem. I definitely think that an option to toggle it on and off should be implemented.

To be clear, I don’t disagree with the points you have made. You have obviously put a lot of thought and effort into an articulate post, and have the WF experience to back it up. I just believe that complaints about health being affected should take priority over any counter argument in this scenario.

image

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I think I failed to include a point, which was the assumption that holding the trigger would fire at his maximum possible fire rate.
And dear lord thank you for posting that picture.

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I love the XR-2 from BO3. Too bad that game frustrates me to no end. I wouldn’t mind a full auto function if it didn’t mess with his accuracy. As I put in another comment this is assuming holding the trigger causes him to fire at his maximum possible RoF.

Aye. It would. But quite a few people that have discussed this in other threads have said they’re already doing the same as what I do - clicking the mouse/pulling the controller trigger faster than he can fire to achieve max fire rate. I don’t see it causing any issues at all. Even if we suppose that I’m wrong and it would cause an imbalance in WF’s performance, then it wouldn’t take much for GBX to tweak that delay between bursts. Honestly, if it did make him perform slightly better then it might be the slight change to his kit that he needs!

You’re welcome lol :acmaffirmative:

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I don’t think it would. Someone already mentioned the Bad Juju from Destiny and it’s accuracy doesn’t take a dive when holding the trigger. That’s pretty much my main issue here. The accuracy decline.

Hopefully. I just hate the accuracy drop off from that RoF. Even if I enjoy the pacing it still leads to a lot of missed bursts on hard to hait targets and since i’m already firing slower that’s a lot of lost DPS.
If he didn’t have the accuracy loss i’d be all for a full auto feature.

It’s weird, i’ve found that getting higher attack speed ratings have an inconsistent relationship with accuracy. Probably my doing since I get used to a certain burst rhythm, but some games high attack speed is amazing and other games I can’t hit anything.
Still feels cool though.

I’m personally not as aggressive. I like to be a generalist and an opportunist. I’m basically in the back, watching over teammates and being a jerk to the enemy team. Basically my job is to penalize anybody for trying to do anything.

Oh don’t get me wrong, I agree with you there. I’m only counter arguing that it should be an option. A setting you can turn on and off depending on your play style. I just don’t like the idea that people who enjoy the character are having to avoid playing him because of discomfort and/or pain. Right now, those are their options - stop playing him or put up with it - and I don’t think that’s acceptable.

Agreed.

No need to be rude, no need for personal attacks either. I have weak joints, they start aching after basically nothing. I can play as WF for 10 minutes and my hands start to hurt.

Well I’ll start by saying that I was asking for WF change so that holding trigger would continue firing the bursts still in my open beta feedback. However, after getting him to lvl15 after release, I’m not so sure anymore. The thing is that after playing him for quite a while I now value precision with his shots way above volume… That being said, there are two sides of this game. In pvp I would not care for any change, in pve I sometimes wish that I did not need to tap constantly when clearing some big wave :stuck_out_tongue:

So all in all, I’m OK with him how he is now. But I would not mind such quality of life improvement. I would not be using it 90% of time most likely and still tap the button, but for those 10% my mouse would be really happy :wink:

P.S. It would not increase fire rate as I believe most of the people already tap the button as fast or even faster than needed. Unless they tap slower intentionally to get more consistent hits on sporadically moving targets.