Who wrote the BL3 main campaign?

The only real issues I had with the story were:

  1. Ava. Don’t think I need to go into why. It’s been done to death.

  2. The twins. There was just some stuff missing in the game to really make them compelling. Hints that there was more, but for some reason was left out. They felt incomplete honestly and that made them feel extremely one dimensional and annoying.

  3. Siren power inconsistency leading to ludo-narrartive dissonance. Siren’s as portrayed in this game, especially Troy and Tyreen are ridiculously overpowered to the point of destroying even previously established canon. Lilith moving Sanctuary took a lot of Eridium and left her drained after. Meanwhile, Tyreen ports armies around like nothing and Troy can apparently phaselock Tannis from “out of nowhere”, leading to Tyreen teleporting her, without being anywhere in the vicinity. So why didn’t they do that to the VH and drop them into deep space or something? If they can literally lock and port people from miles away, the VH shouldn’t have a chance. Seriously, a girl and her robot shouldn’t be able to do anything against them. And more importantly, why can’t Amara? It just didn’t make sense.

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This reminded me of the greatest reaction to the games ending I’ve seen. (time link)

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I think the largest problem with the story is that your character basically had no interaction in any of the cutscenes. For example, your character just stops existing in most cutscenes that involve Tyreen and Troy appearing. I also feel as if the Borderlands 2 vault hunters should have replaced the Borderlands 1 vault hunters, with the original 4 just having minor roles in the games story. As it is, Lilith is the central character of ANOTHER game, which is just obnoxious considering you have to talk to her every mission. And I know that they may appear in future DLCS, but I think that they needed to be an important factor in the main game. I do not think the writers should be FIRED, but they definitely wrote a terrible story that is completey garbage. At least the gameplay is mostly fantastic, other than the grind.

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In response to #3
I got the impression they could do this do to the siphoning of people’s energy/power

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Not only siphon people’s power, but also from eridium and vault monsters.

At the end of BL2, Lilith could siphon power from eridium. Maya could not.

In BL3, we see Tyrene siphon power from vault monsters and followers, but not eridium.

We see Maya learn to siphon from eridium when she opens the vault on Athenas.
When Troy steals her powers, he gains the ability to siphon from eridium.

We also see Tannis use her machine to gain power from eridium and later to use it directly from the Agonizer 9000.


So why are Tannis, Maya, and Amara comparatively weak? Because they’ve barely used their abilities to power up (or have no ability to power up, as is possible with Amara, similar to how Maya used to not be able to do it).

Conversely, when Ava gets her powers from Troy, he has just powered the moon with the crapton of power he has gotten via the eridian drive and from draining Tyrene. It actually does make sense that Ava would have the power (and also the ability/knowledge - perhaps either training from Maya or perhaps Siren powers are somewhat reflexive when the Siren is in danger. That seems to fit with Angel’s memories from that quest) to save them when Tyrene tries to crush them.

When Tyrene and Troy are doing uber-powerful things, it is after they’ve sucked a vault monster (remember Tyrene shared the power). Troy is also using eridium.

And when Lilith saves the day at the end, its after all that power got concentrated in Troy and Tyrene over the whole story, and Tyrene has drained Troy’s body. Lilith essentially takes every amount of power they’ve stored up minus whatever Ava got from Troy.


As for why they didn’t do anything to the vault hunter…well that’s where the writing fails us. The vault hunter isn’t really interacted with much at all by the Calypsos. It seems they don’t even really see us as any kind of threat until the very end. The writing is mostly NPC vs. NPC.

It’s like the twins are Palpatine and Darth Maul, Lilith and crew are the Jedi, and we’re Jar-Jar-Binks…the laughable idiot who is there to be mocked.

Why take out Jar-Jar if you’re Darth Maul? Because he’s under the radar, not because you can’t.

While that explanation is fine, there are a couple of issues with it. For one - liliths power was returned to her, Tyreen a own power was presumably thrown back into the galaxy rng to pass to someone else and it was the leeching that took that power. And with Ava, she is still a child. You could say that her training paid off but given that no detail is given to her training and we see her defy Maya multiple times and show no personal progression, it makes me feel like it was more for convenience that she was able to do it rather than because it made sense. Maya has been developing her powers, having to learn about them and even commented about how hers were nowhere near as powerful as Lilith but she’d been reading an eridium book about it. She could have shown Ava this book sure but reading and practicing are two very different things. To pick it up so flawlessly and not have any repercussion - even show how much it took out of her with some panting - made it kinda eh. Tannis being a siren irked me a lot personally because I felt it changed her role and who she was - even going so far as to make me feel that she was made a siren just so she could be central to the story. She was invaluable without the powers.

I think it would have been smarter to go the route if Ava having gained Angels power - it’s explain more why Maya took her on, see her learn her power through the story…because given how much angel helped us with her power in 2, why didn’t Tannis do anything like that n 3? She’s had 7 years to learn and even had information from Helios.

That’s just me personally and your explanation is good and would explain a lot. But it is a bit lazy in my opinion. It would be like me getting my motorbike from my uncle and suddenly being racer because he’s told me enough about it to justify that.

Edit : another thing that irked me was both Tannis and Lilith being able to talk to us in our mind. Angel was only able to talk to us because she wasn’t too all talking to in our minds but through the echo device. I know in 1 that wasn’t different but I think they hadn’t decided who or what angel was or that she was even a siren. And Tannis should have been able to do what Angel did if your theory is correct - she should have been able to talk to you through the echo. She could have even used it to block out the twins or even try and track them. But instead she did very little with her power.

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The targeted marketing data I bet shaped a lot of the story decisions…

If people could skip dialogue (like cutscenes :star_struck:) I think it would not matter how good or bad…

Good points.

One issue, though, is Angel talked to us in our mind without our echo device.

She does it on the bus before we get off of it, and Claptrap hands us the echo after that.

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As I said before, I give Borderlands 1 the pass because they hadn’t decided who or what angel was. All about her and the creation of Jack was done in 2. It was only in 2 they decided to make her a siren. Don’t forget, Borderlands 1 was originally made as a ‘hey let’s try this’. It was with 2 they decided to start establishing more of a universe.

Just look at most of the characters from 1. A lot different than they were later on - Brick was a very flat character in 1 but in 2, he quickly became one of my favourites.

(It was at the end of my first reply I addressed 1. Correcting lots of spelling mistakes because mobile xD )

I’m personally getting sick and tired of reading these “the writing is bad” topics and posts. Seriously, do you have nothing else to do then judge a story because it doesn’t follow your nerrative? It’s the same thing with Star Wars and i’m talking about the ep 1 to 6 one. Where 1, 2 and 3 were criticized. 4, 5 and 6 were also criticized. However it doesn’t change a thing to rant about a story that’s already set in stone.

Fire them? This is very offensive. I doubt you could even write a basic story for Borderlands, now im offensive to you. And if you did write a story and shared it, you would get criticized. See where i’m going?

The ranting is getting tiresome and is imho cluttering the borderlands 3 forum. I wish there would be more topics about the mysteries of the game, the speculation, easter eggs, secrets and such. It’s dumbed down after scrolling through the forum and almost non-existent besides the few topics that barely get any attention at all. Maybe even make this Story rant/sharing a forum of its own where you can debate about it all you want and even fan-fiction it. Maybe that would please more.

My opinion: The story was great, i loved every part of it and it very heavily resembles all the BL story lines imho. The little details if you didn’t scroll through the game like a maniac actually made me smile and think: damn thats clever. The first time you mis a lot. It’s the same in the movies, like Inception. Where you miss a lot of details that actually spoils the story for you. The TVHM playthrough i went with it gently and damn there are a lot of clever little details in the game.

If the story activates you to be mad about certain parts or upset. The story did its job. This same thing with story telling is used on the ancient fairy tale stories. You didn’t like the outcome, but , you have to live with it because that’s how the story goes for all people. However you can fantasize your own nerrative and share that with the community.

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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with criticism. So long as it’s put across in a respectful way which from what I’ve seen here is what we’ve been doing. I personally didn’t enjoy the story but each to their own.

As for it cluttering the forums, to me that says that there are quite a number of people who feel the same. I also see plenty of forum posts about other topics that I don’t personally care for but that doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t be allowed to voice it.

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I never said criticism is wrong. But it’s becoming a rant. I don’t see how you see it’s all respectful especially with the topic owner’s comment “fire them”. And another one i spotted. Criticism should be respectful to the team that created the nerrative.

What i’m mocking right now are those who are unrespectful, and i do see it a lot. There are also trolls and another type ‘i dunno what makes them (sheep) do this people’ that like to follow the trend.

As for the frequent cluttering of the topic that feel the same, you can’t compare statistics like that.

I do feel that there should be a seperation for it.

Not everyone feels that way. I don’t feel that the writers should be fired but I do strongly agree that in my opinion the writing was poor. But just because a select few of those that don’t like it are being harsh doesn’t mean that all of us do.

I’ve never been a believer of ‘when someone’s rude be rude back’. Kill them with kindness is what I say.

Going back to the topic choice though, I see a variety of topics in the forums. Some do complain about one thing whilst others complain about another. But there are plenty of threads that do show appreciation to the game. And I admit, there are lots of things about the game I do enjoy. I love all the detailing they’ve done around the worlds and the music writers should have won an award for their pieces as they really made the game.

I’m all for discussing opinions but I really do think it’s unfair to say ‘stop complaining’.

If it’s a topic you don’t care for, you don’t have to read it. There are a few on here that’s I don’t care for so don’t go into. But it is a place for giving opinions and the moderators do a great job of keeping an eye out for anyone who goes over the line.

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And we’re helped by the community. Thank you, all. @s.j.jansen Please flag posts that you find problematic and we’ll resolve things in line with the forum rules.

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Well, there is probably a way you could avoid clicking on the topic then…

What if we’re judging it because the jokes were terrible, the characters were 2 dimensional, the dialog was stilted and corny, and the plot was mostly nonsense? You can have your opinion, but others are allowed to have theirs. And in this case, this opinion is overwhelmingly common from average users to major game critics alike. This was not the case with the past two games.

I will at least agree with you that people need to stop making the same thread over and over though.

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Well said.

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Don’t worry, they’ll still continue with the war revealed in pre sequel. I read that they just want want expand the universe