Why Alani is still fundamentally flawed

I mastered her and I really have no desire to ever use her in PVP. She is annoying to play.

Her designs asks the player a few things make her shine:

Hit things to get Osmosis stacks.

Heal your team with those stacks.

Hit things to actually kill them too.

Bubble enemies to basically just knock them out of their ults at least.

So here’s the problems:

Hitting things aside from minions is hard because of the slow speed of her projectiles.

Hitting anything is hard period, unless you’re mid to close range.

Being mid to close range puts Alani in obvious danger.

She doesn’t have a shield so she takes more damage than usual.

She can sustain herself, but that means no heals for the team (Team gets mad because Alani isn’t healing them).

Healing yourself is often pointless because the amount you heal for is typically wiped away plus more before the heal cast animation is finally done letting you attack again.

Since the latest bubble nerf, the bubble seems useless for anything other than hoping you can use it to knock someone out of their ultimate. Otherwise it’s way too hard to hit something that is moving for the now small reward you get from it. Too hard to land for such little damage and such little time in the air that practically no one can react to it to take advantage.

So what it boils down to is that it’s way too hard to generate Osmosis without putting yourself in too dangerous of a position for the character’s defensive abilities leaving her in what seems like a constant state of self survival while being annoyed that you can’t hit anything and your team often annoyed that you “Aren’t doing your job.” because the majority of heals go to yourself.

So because no one likes people to point out problems without offering suggestions, here’s some to possibly pick and choose from to at least get ideas going:

1: Base projectile speed should be a lot faster.
2: Base health is a lot more.
3: Projectiles do splash damage like Benedict’s missiles.
4: Osmosis generates naturally over time.
5: Healing cast animation is much shorter.
6: Bubble needs to either innately have a shorter burst timer, or do more base damage. Alternatively it could leave the enemy in the air longer but not allowing any damage to be done to them.
7: More move speed to be able to get out of danger easier.
8: Projectiles can have slight homing ability to them but decrease damage done to compensate.

2 Likes

And here I thought we’d never agree on anything.

I’m not a fan of what they’ve done to Alani. I liked playing her as a midline controller/support, not as an aggressor. I get that playing her aggressively was a problem when she released, but they’ve pushed her toward that role with the changes they have made (more movement speed, less distance on shots, etc.)

I would have preferred to keep her health and range, but reduce her primary damage drastically and reduce her ability to heal herself (so her sustain wasn’t ridiculous with the larger health pool).

I really hate fighting her now. With the increased movement speed, she’s so annoying to play against.

2 Likes

I like the idea of her slowly and constantly generating osmosis. Really hope they would consider this and also revert her radius on her geyser.

Personally, I haven’t seen any of the issues you’ve talked about. I like the fact that you have to play Alani aggressively and don’t really have an issue hitting people (I wouldn’t mind an increase to her projectile speed though). For self healing, I’ve never really had a problem deciding between healing myself and others because I can generate Osmosis stacks pretty quickly and effectively specifically because you only have to hit enemies to generate them. Also, healing myself is always useful, even in combat, but I don’t go for Extremophile and instead go for Full Saturation, so it gives me a bunch of DR instead of, if I’m lucky, a bunch of overheal.

As to some of the changes you recommend…

Definitely agree with this, though maybe not “a lot”. I’d be fine even if it were attached to the range increase helix instead of a baseline one.

Since she can burst self heal, I don’t really see why this is necessary. The entire reason why Alani had to health reduced from ~1.4k to ~1k was because pretty much everyone agreed that she was too “tanky” thanks to her ability to self heal.

That would remove the ability for them to crit, I believe, which I am firmly against. Also, not sure it’s really necessary since she’s already got incredible AoE damage (Wave Shock, Emergence).

Really don’t agree with this. It would completely change her playstyle. Instead of being the aggressive healer that heals better the better she is at attacking, she becomes this charged based version of Miko that hangs back and just throws out big heals every once in a while.

Once again, I wouldn’t mind it but don’t really see it as necessary. I can get off the heals just fine.

Geyser definitely needs something to make it not suck so bad before the endgame when you finally get to the level 8 Geyser helices. The level 2 Geyser helices need a complete rework as well since they’re both basically useless with the nerf to Geyser’s duration.

It would also be nice if they did something to make Geyser not utterly worthless in PvE as well. It only does the advertised bind on players, which means that the level 2 helices quite literally do nothing in PvE.

She’s already got plenty, especially now that Kinetic Diffusion is actually a legitimate option. I’m fine with her being on the slow side (now that she’s not utterly glacial), since she’s still got great control, good damage, and incredible burst healing.

[quote]8: Projectiles can have slight homing ability to them but decrease damage done to compensate.
[/quote]

She already has large projectiles and absolutely no recoil. If you can’t hit stuff with her, it’s on your end, not the character’s, especially since you also want her projectiles to move faster.

5 Likes

I already explained above why her self heal is often pointless.

No, the suggestions aren’t meant to be taken as ALL of them should be implemented, it’s meant as options to pick and choose. The main issue with this though is hitting stuff with the projectiles as is requires you to be mid to close range against targets that are brain dead and not moving putting her way too much in harm’s way. Yes she can heal herself, to make up for it, but then your team isn’t getting any heals.

And I refuted this.

Her heal is more than big enough (especially when combined with Full Saturation) to keep me alive when I’ve got an assassin riding me and/or top me off after a big fight. A full Osmosis Wellspring is going to give her ~500 hp, assuming no other buffs. Her heal takes about half a second to resolve.

Keep in mind, her self heal isn’t meant to be as good as a targeted heal. It’s significantly weaker when applied to herself for good reason: so that she’s got a reason to heal other people instead of just focusing on herself.

[quote]The main issue with this though is hitting stuff with the projectiles as is requires you to be mid to close range against targets that are brain dead and not moving putting her way too much in harm’s way.
[/quote]

If you’re having problems hitting targets that aren’t brain dead with Torrent attacks, it’s not the problem of the character; it’s the problem of the player.

She’s an aggressive mid-range character. You’re not trying to improve Alani; you’re trying to change her into something fundamentally different, which is a background healer/support which she was never designed to be, and, honestly, if she was turned into the background healer/support that you want to her be, I wouldn’t find her to be half as interesting to play as she is now.

As it stands, she’s a Complex character for a reason. If you don’t like how she plays, try playing someone else. Just because you mastered her doesn’t mean that you’ve proven that your opinion that she plays “wrong” is justified. It just means you forced yourself to play a character that you didn’t enjoy. Trying to change her from what the devs obviously intend her to be (and plenty of other people actually enjoy because of that highly alternative healer model) is attempting to say that your own opinions of a character are more important than anyone else’s with the sole justification that you played her a lot.

4 Likes

Honestly, they should’ve never nerfed her to be a support in the first place.

Once she was, she was only picked because of her healing and her straight broken bubble.

Now that her bubble is not broken, she does no damage, and her healing is in line; she’s worthless.

Like there’s zippo reason to pick this character. Her helix tree offers a garbage power spike as well. LMAO this character needs levels 7-9 to even be remotely good anymore. Sucks when everyone else spikes at 3-5.

She would’ve been a perfectly fine caster/ off healer if they had just nerfed her god damn bubble and self healing in the first place. IMO they kinda just missed on this one.

Every game I played last night was as Alani. I friggin’ love what they’ve done with her. The bubble doesn’t feel cheap and nasty/insta-kill anymore, her helix is much more balanced than it was, the damage is in a great place (nerfed attack speed, increased attack damage).

Her self-heal and ability to tank is still insane. In 5 or 6 games I believe I died once or twice only. Saved my teammates’ asses multiple times per game.

In short, I have no-idea what you are talking about. I just think you need to practice aiming with torrent. Play PvE to practice, I guess.

5 Likes

I’m just mad they needed riptide. I’ve gone back to surfing on it since the dot was nerfed.

But the main change needed is the graphics on her water.

Enemy water should be a different color so you know which river is going to heal you, and water should be transparent. So you can see what’s going on.

2 Likes

@palmedic89

I’ll leave this with you, I’d like to hear your thoughts on this topic.

To be entirely honest I believe Alani was already in the right place before the latest nerfs. Her current state is reminiscent of Ambra pre-buff where her healing is great but other aspects are lacking (largely due both riptide and geyser being nerfed just waiting on the ultimate being nerfed too). As a support her attack seems high now 45 dmg was appropriate with her kit but no it’s higher at the expense of her kit.

I can live with the helix changes, the low health and speed buff but a simple revert on the geyser changes and the attack damage increase and she will be in the right spot.

Looking at Geyser currently there are far superior options offered by other characters.

Geyser offers 15% damage amp for 1 second compared to priority target (Reyna) which offers 16% for 4 seconds and sunspot which offers the same only difference is that neither of these skills require aim to land. Geyser offered 30% for 2 seconds so half duration but double the damage amp and this required aim in addition to your teams support to really take advantage of it. It was hardly an Insta-kill unless you were being shot by the entire team in which case shouldn’t that’s be enough to kill a character or at least push you back?

The OP got it right when he said it is used to stop an enemies ultimate/skill because outside of that it may help you trap a fleeing enemy otherwise there is little use. (I’ve trapped Phoebe near a base defence turret with myself and 3 team mates shooting we barely had an impact and couldn’t punish her for over extending).

In regards to self healing I loathe the idea of it simply because it halves your effectiveness literally you only receive 50% of the total heal. I have suggested that a helix be introduced to allow Alani to be healed when healing an ally to work around the issue but to no avail it seems. Too often have I seen alanis self heal only to have team mates die nearby defeating the purpose of having a team healer at all. We have all accidentally self healed when an ally runs behind a wall etc. but there is little justification for doing it regularly. Please heal your team mates :smile:

Like Ambra before I will continue to main her despite her less than ideal state but like they reverted the Galilea nerf I am confident that the nerfs will be reverted for Alani in the near future if only to keep consistency in the balancing.

2 Likes

Scum.

Geyser offers 15% damage amp, interrupts all skills/cancels ults, incapacitates the enemy for several seconds, and holds them in the air completely immobile for your team to wail on. Please don’t over-simplify things.

EDIT: Geyser actually doesn’t offer damage amp anymore… The 15% is damage shared.

Sure we can delve deep but the damage amp/stun is one second in duration specifically knock up adds somewhere from 0.5-1 second total with no other incapacitation (previously geyser incapacitated for 2 seconds). And For the analysis we were looking at damage amp specifically where it is lacking in comparison to the other skills.

Please do not base all of your opinions on one night playing as her (as you have done above) and please read the entire comment before replying as you would have read that I mentioned each of those things further down (over simplifying you could say).

@Slif_One haha yes that is my usual name for self healing alanis. those alanis truly are a detriment to their team attempting to ‘tank’ damage as a support. It agitates me so much haha :smile:

2 Likes

I have played her regularly since early access.

Also having just played her again, geyser no longer has damage amp. The 15% is damage shared. Still a brutal skill if landed. It is a hard CC skill. Not a damage amp skill like Reyna or Ambra.

It used to be stupid-OP if landed.

There are several situations where it makes sense to heal yourself and let a teammate die. Healing a herpaderp teammate that dives way too far does nothing except stall their death. So many times I save someone running away and they get sudden bravado, run back in, and die anyway. I would say 75-85% of my healing is on others, but there are definitely times where I will save myself over a teammate. Better one dies than both of us. Particularly if I’m the one killing minions.

2 Likes

Well that certainly explains the lacklustre of geyser then I’ll admit I only looked at the % thinking the rest was kept the same and I don’t remember see that in the patch notes.

So not only was the radius reduced, damage amp was removed, damage shared lowered and the duration reduced. That’s 4 nerfs to a single skill.

Maybe 15% damage amp would be sufficient who knows now. Previously it was ok in meltdown since very rarely would you have a whole team shooting but in incursion I can imagine it would be a more common occurrence hence why a reduction in the amp would be acceptable.

Playing 150 matches with the damage amp (post the op phase haha) has made it all the more noticeable for it to be gone entirely.

Well, I mean this with no offense what so ever but being a Master of ANY character doesn’t mean you know them 100%. A giggle a bit inside when someone says “I mastered this character and I KNOW what’s wrong”. I’m sure you are a good Alani player. I’ll drop my opinions for the things you think should be implemented for Alani.

1: Base projectile speed should be a lot faster.
There is attack speed gear and helix Lv 7 for 20% extra speed. Also they have helix Lv 3 pressure wash so your torrents travel further and faster. Not only that, they buffed her damage… If they buffed her speed she will be doing assassin type damage

2: Base health is a lot more. Maybe a little more, she can heal with her own waves and osmosis.

3: Projectiles do splash damage like Benedict’s missiles.
No… Her waves are AOE enough… Just no.

4: Osmosis generates naturally over time.
So you want to generate over time AND generate when attacking… AND generate with her helix wave refresher??? No… Please just no.

5: Healing cast animation is much shorter.
No… At level 10 when you can generate osmosis fast, she will be a healing machine… You need a small window that atleast someone can stun/ apply wound to make it fair just like the rest of the characters.

6: Bubble needs to either innately have a shorter burst timer, or do more base damage. Alternatively it could leave the enemy in the air longer but not allowing any damage to be done to them.
No, please… This will give enemy people to set up counters as soon as the guy falls down. Hello double / triple stun instant death. The bubble is fine the way it is and has a helix to make it bigger or go off faster… So please no

7: More move speed to be able to get out of danger easier.
Do you know that the waves give you haste right? Last thing we need is an Alani that moves super fast

8: Projectiles can have slight homing ability to them but decrease damage done to compensate.
Starting to think you can’t aim well with wanting homing, splash damage, super fast Alani… But please, just no.

Lastly, I play Alani a lot as well… Too easy to master hard to learn. My gripe with Alani is her waves travel too far and you can helix it to make it super long. They have to lower the travel distance of the regular wave also lower the CC time of her slow wave.

T the travel distance is good when she’s riding it!

1 Like

Only thing that needs to be done, is reverting her back before this last update. I feel like she was in a really good place there.