Why do I keep downing myself?

I’m fairly new to Moze and I’m using an explosive/splash build but I seem to be downing myself constantly. I know it might be expected with this sort of build but it keeps happening, even when I feel like I’m nowhere near an enemy or sometimes when I shoot them with a normal non splash gun and they get close I’m just going down instantly and I don’t know what is causing it. Shooting a charging warhound with OPQ system for example and when it gets close but not close enough to hit me I just go straight down from shooting it?

It’s the random shock damage from the O.P.Q. System. Like every 3-4 (or something) of the bullets deal this damage, which also hits you if you get to close. By using The Transformer shield, you can avoid this shock damage, and also heal your shield. Just my 2 cents.

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OPQ system has splash damage when it randomly causes shock explosions. Don’t use it at close range or put on a Transformer.

Are you getting this with other weapons?

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Sometimes I get it with Yellowcake or other launchers when I’m far away, but I’ve done some reading and that could apparently be because of Torgue Cross Promotion or the skills that give bonus incendiary damage?

It might be TCP (and possibly the way it is interacting with barrels). If I am not mistaken the hitzones in some cases are bigger the visual effect. Not 100% sure about this, but I’ve seen some posts mentioning some issues of this type.

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Would you recommend taking TCP off? I’m not really sure what to do with my Moze tbh. I’ve tried three builds so far and idk what to do.

Is there a more versatile build for her? The BM build I’m using now works okay on some bosses and I can kill them quickly but for mobbing it feels so frustrating to use with constant downing myself.

I also tried a Mind Sweeper build with Kaoson and it did really bad damage compared to videos I saw, but maybe I just had bad anointments so it wasn’t working.

Is there any build for her that can do M10 bossing and mobbing in a more versatile way?

I like TCP, so I wouldn’t recommend taking it off unless you’re not using splash damage. It’s great for Blast Master or Mind Sweeper builds.
For your Kaoson, make sure it has a full-auto firing mode. I don’t know what your version is like, but if it has burst-fire, you’re going to get a delay between shots that will reduce the damage by quite a bit. My Kaoson has a consecutive hits anointment, and it does fine mobbing before I start to get use out of that anointment. If the micro-grenades annoy you, Blast Master works just fine with the Kaoson.

I’m still mostly in dark about what works in M10, but I’ve had some luck with BM/SoR Bloodletter and Sand Hawks, Monarchs and OPQ-Systems. (I used a Transformer to avoid downing myself with the OPQ-System.) You can also use Yellowcake on this build without TCP and MOD (just use Some for the Road to get free shots) and it will still be great.

For me the most versatile build is pure Blue tree and Green tree. I can use a Blast Master, Mind Sweeper, and Bloodletter as long as the rolls have Splash Damage, Weapon damage. I really like having an extra Splash Radius on my com as well but you got to space yourself out because it will kill you even faster than what you are experiencing right now.

You can also try a pure Red and Green tree to avoid the splash damage. It does a lot of damage when using Deathless, 50/150 Rad anoints, and a GOD ROLL Bloodletter. But of course there are downsides with Deathless.

I was having the same thing happening and wondering WTF was downing me all the time, until I was testing damage on the Jack dummy with it, and saw the shock splash happening. I was like “oh.” Transformer time!

OPQ and Transformer works but if your OPQ has 50/150 rad running Deathless it will cause you to go down. It’s too much for the Transformer.

Oh mine has 300 at 90 or above but I had no transformer on

I tried hard to make Mindsweeper work but it just wouldn’t for me. Maybe my anoints suck, how does it work? It seems less consistent than BM

I would advise getting used to BM first before MS. MS will down you more. With MS aim for crits. Get a gun with nice base damage and handling overall.

For example if you use Ogre with BM and MS, I get better results with BM. If I use Warlord I get better damage with MS. But since you are downing yourself more, adding more points to TCP via MS will kill you faster than BM. You gotta just have to practice spacing. For a starter, BM would be my recommended com.

So can BM and MS pretty much both use the same weapons then? My BM build is using Blue and Green tree, is that correct? I can just swap the coms and artificacts around without respeccing?

What artifacts should I use?

In my experience you can pretty much use the same weapon but certain weapons are more suitable with BM and some on MS.

If you have DLC2, a good general one is the Pearl artifact because you are guaranteed to get it. I would also go with Last Stand Otto Idol or Last Stand Victory Rush. It really depends on what you are trying to build. But I think for you if you want a safe approach Last Stand Otto Idol is my recommended artifact. However getting a god roll in any of these artifacts will be the challenge. If you got another max character, I suggest farming Cathedral of Twin Gods in M10. You will get a lot of artifacts.

You can use the same weapons with them, but some weapons that are (or were good) with BM are not good with MS and vice versa. There’s just a bit of overlap. As for the build, you can use the same skill points with them and they’ll work. But you can also optimize if you want. (For example, since grenade damage doesn’t scale in Mayhem 2.0, you don’t need to max out Pull the Holy Pin with BM. Grenade crits will only be useful for activating Redistribution, not damage. But with MS, micro-grenades can be very powerful, and we want them to crit so they do extra damage and create their own grenades, so we max out Pull the Holy Pin).

I was using a COM with +5 in TCP and the yellowcake. Needless to say, I spent a lot of time looking for a FFYL target. The +60 damage is great. The doubled splash area not so much, when I’m near…anything. And every mob seems to know this and wants to get a good look at my RPG.

I swapped it out for something a bit more balanced, but yeah, I wish Moze had some splash-damage resistance. Still, I can take down Killavolt on M10 with a M4 yellowcake, so I shouldn’t complain (except for the drops, the pain is real).

When you are running that it’s as simple as taking a step backwards right after firing it. I was running that with even extra boosted range from +aoe and my yellowcake has 392 radius(large roll for it) and that tactic served me well. It’s really something where you just have to learn the range of it and going by what you see visually will not help as the radius isn’t properly displayed.

I have noticed that. I forgot :flushed: about the TCP radius increase chance before seeing this thread. Now I think a few of those were a result of the increase. Either that or one pixel of Iron Bear has collision detection.

You’re right about the movement. I’ve gotten used to the movement on Zane with a lob, though I’ll still run into my orbs from time to time. But for the most part, I know how fast I can move and how far forward I can run before I have to back up a step or strafe.

I just need to get that feel for Moze. I also need to get a better sense of the splash area. Sometimes things drop instantly. Other times I feel like I’m launching a shirt-cannon at the mobs. Still, it’s a fun build and one that I enjoy more than I thought I would. But the real question is, why can’t I equip two of these onto Iron Bear? :smiling_imp:

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Wouldn’t it just be the absolute best if Iron Bear had his own loot? Would solve this scaling issue. I’d love to see big ass guns drop that are meant for his arms only. Just like our loot, give them different stats, elements etc. Make him some legendaries!

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