Why do I suck so badly?

Caldarius is one of the last characters I’d recommend to play as. He’s not necessarily complicated, but take incredible skill to do well with. I’d recommend someone like Orendi, her skill trees have a lot of synergy and she’s easy to use but takes practice to be great with. And, in general, avoid Jennerit. Rath is okay, but the rest are complicated underdogs.

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I’ve discovered that the right skill choices in the helix can really make a difference based on play style. For instance, I was doing just OK with Benedict. I switched to his faster rocket speed skill over the reload and increased my kills. Pretty much nobody picks that skill. I think if you are finding no luck, try switching skills.

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A few tips I have that I haven’t seen anyone list. Leveling up is more important than purchasing your gear, most characters will benefit from a 0 cost shard generator and cost reduction so that they can level up faster than waiting till later in the game to purchase stronger gear. I normally run a 0 cost shard generator and 0 cost build reduction on my characters when I want to do really well, then I also equip 1 legendary for that character. Most characters rely quite a bit on getting their helix choices over that 10% damage increase that you want to buy and most characters have a damage increase in their helix anyway.

This will help your team early game and level you up faster than the other team usually. The point is to get to lvl 5 faster than the other team, at which point you have your ultimate, then you save up for your legendary equipment. because turrets and buildables get less effective the longer the match goes on its ok to buy your legendary equipment around lvl 5-6. So for the first few levels your goal is to buy as much as possible to level up and kill as many minions as possible. With players until you are level 5 it is mostly pointless to kill anyone anyway (respawn times early in the game have very little impact), unless it is a very safe kill, so just try to do enough damage to get players away from you.

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Oh another high level tip, that honestly I didn’t want to share because it is something you learn eventually but isn’t stated anywhere. You get experience from turret kills and assists that you purchase. So if you are playing meltdown a good tip for starting a match is to gather shards and buy a turret then switch sides and kill those minions. This helps you level up quicker and with the suggested 0 cost shard generator and 0 cost buildable reduction you should always have enough shards to buy the first turret (maybe even upgrade it sometimes). Try these tips out and see how you do, now that I posted these tips though expect your teammates/opponents to be using them as well. Happens all the time for me I suggest something for a game then I see it everywhere and have to come up with new strategies.

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Thanks for the tip! I usually do something like this when I’m playing Miko.
I am confused, though, by the phrase ‘0 cost’. Are there really items with 0 cost, or do you simply mean grey low cost items?

Yea there are items that have 0 shard activation cost. They are going to be white/grey rarity items with a negative stat. For the shard generating gear your optimal choices for the negative stat is going to be -14% heal power or -21% reload speed. I suggest taking the negative reload speed for most characters and the heal power for people who reload (Melka, OM) Miko unfortunately has terrible options all around for a 0 cost shard generator. For the buildable cost reduction you have the same options for the negative stats. You can get these by buying the common gear loot boxes and are well worth buying them until you get the max rolled stats for the cost reduction and shard generation.

And you want the 0 cost ones because you can buys those the second you can move your character. I have activated it and had around 60-70 shards before the gate was even open and I have had up to 540 shards before even running into a player (Mind you 540 shards with the cost reduction is almost enough to buy a turret and upgrade it). Having an upgraded turret on the very first wave of meltdown can really shut down a lane.

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If you can’t tell, I really can’t promote turrets and other buildables enough. But I hadn’t thought to give the piece of advice that makes the turrets matter. Fight try to fight around your turrets and protect them if you seem them getting destroyed, they do a lot of damage early game. Once you get to level 5 you can ignore this tip a bit because again turrets get less useful the longer the game goes on so don’t rely on them as much in the later portion of the game. For the marquis out there just try to scare them away or keep their focus off the turrets, he is a nuisance.

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Okay, let me reassure you: You are NOT an idiot. :slight_smile: The game is unlike nearly any other shooter on the market.

The problem that I’m seeing from your post, is that you’re starting with the game, trying to learn Melee tanking. hands down, that is the hardest position to play. Melee DPS can pretty much bail on a fight, but tanks get all the attention once they’re exposed and vulnerable.

Caldarius is equally tricky, as would be Mellka. They’re both hybrids, able to dance in and out of a fight fast. But it’s knowing WHEN, when to make the big entrance or exit, that makes and breaks players.

I’m going to break down some suggestions for other characters to try, based on what I think you want. It’ll be a long list, but it should help.

At this point, I would recommend NOT going Melee tanks. It’s far harder, and less forgiving of mistakes than being a ranged one. Now, if you want to learn Melee DPS, El Dragon is right up your alley. Save his Clothesline, not for a new attack, but for the single most FRUSTRATING ESCAPE MECHANISM IN THE GAME!!! Sorry. :slight_smile: if you want to get used to tanking, I’d recommend ISIC or Monty to start with. Both are very robust tanks, that can deal with being hit, and deal out a lot of hits on their own. You need to learn how to initiate a fight, and sustain yourself for a bit, either until the enemy runs, or your healer gets to you. At that point, decide whether you want to back off or try and get the kill. DON’T always try and get the kill. Your job as a tank is to start the fight on good terms. Let a DPS get the kill, live to get the assist, and you’ll have a more prepared team for the next enemy.

As for alternate DPS characters, you could try someone like Oscar Mike. Don’t let the CoD influences fool you; he’s the best pusher and one of the best ranged DPS’s in game. At level 2, pick up the Fragcendiary Grenade Mutation, and just watch the world burn. Another character I would recommend as a learning tool, is Whiskey Foxtrot. Again, the gun shouldn’t delude you. He’s a cross between Oscar Mike and Marquis. He doesn’t get Marquis’ big crits and punishing AoE effects, but he can be a good tool in learning how to reverse a fight and capitalize on it. I would personally recommend shying away from Orendi and Benedict at THIS point. You need the fundamentals first. They both have a very…unique playstyle. Some people will grasp it instantly. I’m two months old with BB, and I’m STILL trying to work out how benedict’s DPS works. :slight_smile:

One last thing: keep running the PvE content. it’s great for leveling your player rank, good for leveling specific characters, and is the best way to get more gear items. Don’t focus on Legendaries yet. Just get lots of blue and purple loot, and try to avoid keeping anything with red text; that’s a negative mod, that affects any characters who equip that item with shards. You want more items, because it will give you more build options, and let you take different roles for the same characters(A DPS Galilea, a soft-tank Rath with so much lifesteal that his vampire non-festish will be a flat out lie…) Treat the PvE as a laboratory of sorts. Go there to try out different Helix combinations, and see how they interact. It’ll serve you a lot better than trying to trot out an untested character into PvP. Once you have your build idealized(remember, it worked against bots. SOME things won’t work against players) take it to PvP and see where you stand.

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I’ve got around 130 hours in BB, so I’m not that new. I appreciate the advice, but I disagree about me not being an idiot. I just tried Orendi in PVE, loved her, tried her in PVP and am on a losing streak, of course. Our team just got owned by a 11-0 Montana with a Miko behind him. Their other players were barely consequential. I’m still processing this defeat of a 5-man team by one guy. This usually happens with Galileas, I’m at a loss then as well. I don’t know, I just don’t know, I’m so mad at myself.

I just couldn’t scratch him. With anything. Attacks or skills. And Miko couldn’t be caught. I’m in a game with the same pair right now, and it’s the same thing all over again. I seem to be throwing needles at them while they’re almost one-shotting me. And this always seems to be the case, no matter who I’m up against.

Well now that you’ve fully established why you suck so badly.

Time to have some practice that isn’t the equivalent to watching paint dry.

P.S: Learn, do, remember to do. I think you skip the lat one

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There are some FANTASTIC items with penalties on them.

Except it wasn’t. You are discounting Miko’s contribution.

If the Montana knows how to use their skills effectively, that’s a very hard combo to stop without a well-coordinated team. You need a coordinated attack and you probably aren’t going to get anywhere while Hailstorm is up (even more so if he’s got Mansformation).

If you want to play Orendi, the first thing to do is focus on not dying and killing minions. Buy buildables. You want to be out leveling the enemy if you can.

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A good Monty and Miko, can basically end the game. Montana has the highest health of any Hero. If he helixes out properly, he becomes borderline unkillable save for an absolute focus down. If he has an equally good Miko…even that might not do it. Maybe if you time it around the sentry as well as a 3-man rush on him…

You’re putting way more weight on YOUR shoulders than I think you should. Like I said, Orendi isn’t an easy character to master for PvP. PvE, no one’s going to play AGAINST her skills. Mobs aren’t going to know to constantly stay evasive until she blows her SFP, and to avoid getting TOO close unless they’re melee. They won’t dodge her ult, seeing the windup coming. In PvP with orendi, you have to kind of know either where you think your target will go, or where you will FORCE them to go, and put the SFP in the middle of the run.

Tanks played by cagey players, can really negate your offense. They have so much health, so many ways to either reduce, negate or in some cases REFLECT damage, that it seems like they can’t be beaten. It’s in those moments that you have to think not so much of KILLING the tank, as removing them from the fight. Luring a tank out of position, can easily swing the tide of battle for your team who can clean up on kills. A lot of times when I play someone like Kleese for example, I’ll sucker DPS and tanks out to chase me. Yeah, they’ll probably kill me, but my shield turrets are still buffing my allies, while their team loses a DPS for their fights. And if they DON’T kill me, I might just be able to reverse the situation, and kill THEM. :slight_smile:

These are the little tricks and tactics that are beating you. You’re not being hammered into the ground. You’re getting out manuevered by experienced players. And it happens to us ALL. :slight_smile:

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I forgot you need my username. I’miss joey_kicks_ass7 on ps4

“There’s your problem.” - Jamie Hyneman. As @Misguided pointed out, a good Montana/Miko combo can pretty much wreck everybody unless the other team focuses almost exclusively on them. Montana by himself can be a pita if he isn’t focused on either. I just had a game where all four of my deaths came about because three members of the other team focused on me. And I had another game before that where I killed a Shayne & Aurox at least 5 times because they tried to solo me; I was almost happy for them when they finally got in a kill. :dukecheese:

No, it’s your lack of experience that’s the problem. I was Command Rank 100 before I went into my first PVP match as Shayne & Aurox in an attempt to get her PVP lore. Guess what happened: I didn’t do very well. The only reason my team won was because I played with a few guys who had already done PVP and knew what to expect. If you want to learn, I’d go with an “easy” character like Oscar Mike to start with. As others have said: focus on killing minions, building stuff, buying the big minion bot when it’s available, and attacking mercenary camps if you’re playing Incursion. If you’re playing Meltdown, try to prevent the enemies’ minions from making it to the grinder. If you’re playing Capture, stop, because that’s a team deathmatch mode and is not for the beginner or faint of heart. Metldown’s a pretty easy mode to try because OM excels at it due to his napalm at level 2: just drop a grenade in-front of the minion wave and shoot at them while they walk over your firepit. When you come across enemy Battleborn, remember that they’re going to try their hardest to kill you without being killed themselves, so you should play defensively until you learn how they act. Once your shield goes down, pop your stealth and get the hell out of there unless you have backup. That goes for any mode: if you’re by yourself, you’re doing something wrong.

One thing you might want to try is doing some private PVP matches because the bots aren’t as aggressive as regular players and that would give you a chance to learn both the maps and the general flow of your preferred mode. It can also help show you what works and what doesn’t; but remember everything you learn there won’t necessarily translate to the real world. Think of it as school: you can learn the basics on which to build your knowledge once you’re in the real thing. :dukeaffirmative:

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Wow that Battle School thing is really neat lol Stuff like that is great for the community. Awesome job :slight_smile:

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It’s going to be a bit difficult to fully diagnose why you are doing so badly without watching you play and knowing what modes or in-game queues you appear to be struggling with.

For example, are you diving into the other team, their minions, or side of the map to try and get kills? Doing this is almost 100% guaranteed to not get you the kill and get you killed.

What type of gear are you using in a typical build? Are you using attack damage and attack speed gear on melees? Are you using reload speed on certain characters? How much do these items cost?

When attacking Battleborn, are you leading with some type of CC? El Dragon, for example, are you running in and doing the knock-up, followed by the En Fuego Dragon Splash Stun?

Are you attacking Battleborn only when it is advantageous for you to do so? ie player advantage, position advantage, character skill advantage etc.

I’m sorry to hear you’re struggling so much, but I can tell you it’s extremely familiar to me. But the feeling wasn’t in Battleborn, it was in SMITE, which leads me to a question that hasn’t been asked before:

Do you have prior MOBA experience?

Based on your answers so far and your struggle, I’m assuming you don’t (please correct me if I assume wrongly), and that is part of the struggle. MOBAs are really complex monsters to try and get a grip on, and it takes a lot of time to get even remotely comfortable with the mechanics. BB is even harder than most ‘true’ MOBAs in that it combines the complexity of character synergy, leveling, builds and need for awareness of that genre with the breakneck pace of shooters. It’s an intensely interesting but hard to grasp combination of genres without prior experience in one of those.

How to fix this is just time, practice and working on one thing at a time. Don’t try to work on your map awareness, positioning, skill usage, cooldown management and objective control all at once. Pick one, work on that and let the rest be for now. Like others suggested before me, Oscar Mike is a really friendly character to learn the intricacies with, as he is extremely flexible and easy to use.

Another, slightly more out of the box idea, is getting some MOBA experience somewhere else. I’d recommend SMITE for this, as it’s pretty forgiving in it’s early levels and has various game modes to practice different things in. The pace is a lot slower and the 3rd person camera makes it a lot more recognizable than isometric games like League or Heroes of the Storm.

While I’m no pro at the game, I’m more than willing to run practice and coaching matches with you to try and narrow down the things you need to work on first. It’d be a shame to give up due to a roadblock like this, that’s definitely manageable with some help. Steam name is GreyAethelwulf.

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Hey, thanks for your reply! I indeed have MOBA experience, I played LoL for a reeeeeally long time and stopped because I was raging at myself too hard. Then I tried SMITE, played for a long time as well, right until Poseidon came out, I remember, and quit for the same reason. At the time of writing this post, I was close to quitting BB for the same reason - yeah, there’s a pattern. That’s why I said I was the one with the problem, not the game.

I added you on Steam, hope we can get some games in together. (Tobster is my steam name)

One thing I recommend if you run him through some training jack, is the strafing game. I ran a few friends through map memory, and knowing how to back up and not get HUNG UP on terrain, while still being able to shoot effectively, so they could decide on their own when and how to fight or retreat. From what I’m hearing, it sounds a lot like positioning issues and escaping a trap after it’s sprung. Start him off with the big models(Monty, ISIC, Toby etc.) so he can feel how things can go sour fast if you get jammed up. :slight_smile:

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That was the plan :wink: Thanks for the heads up though! Much appreciated.