Why do I suck with Deande

Battleborn Deande
#21

I actually main Deande and I’m completely on your side. She’s weak as hell.

Doesn’t do as much melee damage as Rath. Doesn’t get as much insane attack speed buffs from loadouts like Phoebe. Her cooldowns are insanely long, and it’s easy to miss with blink strike.

The person arguing why she’s good keeps saying that she can sneak up into the back line and pick off weaker enemies. While this is true, half the time she doesn’t do enough physical damage to be a major threat. If you get a Rath or Phoebe on you, it’s basically game over unless you can somehow silence or juke the hell out of them.

If Deande gets on you…just walk away. She’s not a fast runner and most characters can get away. She has a slow in her helix, but it requires you to use your clone, its not a heavy slow, and it only lasts 3 seconds. So basically if you were to stealth into the fight like the other guy suggests, you get 3 seconds of mediocre damage before they’re perfectly able to run away again. The uppercut mutation helps a bit, but the stun wears off while they’re still mid-air, and if they time it right, it’s another easy escape.

Her ultimate is garbage. Unavoidable long wind up to use it. Enemies can easily just circle you faster than you can turn. It does hardly any damage, especially if they have a shield. You’re not immune to damage or stuns/cc while doing it. So say you’re attacking an injured Oscar mike. The enemy Kelvin/ISIC/Galilea/Ghalt etc etc etc can just shut your ult down instantly.

She also has no range. Characters like Rath and Phoebe not only have a damage, attack speed, and movement speed advantage, but the fact that they have long swords allows them to keep poking you from quite an arms length away. Deande’s fans are tiny, and in turn she’s practically got to be on the enemy’s dick if she wants to land hits. That only makes it harder to escape once you start getting pounded on after you realize you don’t do much damage.

A fun thing I actually noticed today is how broken off-hand melee hits are against Deande. I played a match where I got all up in WF’s business, and he literally just spammed his off-hand to knock me back, shot me till I got close, then before I could land hits just knock me back again. Rinse and repeat. I was also out damaged by a Kleese whom I had a level advantage on and two pieces of gear while he had nothing and didn’t even have any shield generators up. Just wrist watch and back handed me to death for well over 1K damage.

So in short, when comparing to Deande to other other melee assassins she has:

  • slower movement speed
  • slower attack speed
  • lower attack damage
  • shorter attack range
  • worse ultimate
  • thrown fans curve, making them hard to land at long range to kill escaping targets…since you’re too slow to catch up
  • longer cooldowns
  • benefits less from loadout items
  • slow that is dependent on her passive, meaning wasting an ability to get the passive/slow, or the enemy isn’t slowed and you use the clone to dip
    *oh and I haven’t compared them yet, but I can say her legendary item sucks too. I had blues that gave better stat boosts

And again, I main Deande. Despite all of the complaining about her problems I still do very well the majority of the time. But I know that going into each match is an uphill battle.

She needs buffs, big time. Nothing drastic, but all of the things that make her less competitive than Rath and Poebe need to be buffed a bit.

2 Likes
#22

Yes, yes she can. Phoebe is incredibly broken at the moment.

Literally can ruin teams with a simple attack speed, attack damage, and movement speed loadout.

Phoebe benefits tremendously from attack speed. A blue or higher item combined with her helix speed boost, and she can legitimately double+ her basic attack speed. Which also equals double the dps. Combine that with the attack damage item, and she’s outputting gnarly dps. Plus the movement speed, and she can box and run circles around you and dip really fast if need be. If they’re all blue or purple then you can probably get items that grant even MORE attack speed, attack damage, movement speed, or even crit or cooldown if you wanted it.

Have not seen a bad Phoebe yet who uses this loadout setup. In fact I played with one today who went 19-2 simply because she could blink in, and literally circle around and box someone and dps them down before the slow even wore off. Tank, support…it didn’t matter at all. Was putting out more dps than Galilea before the patch.

1 Like
#23

Unfortunately i must agree with your post. I main S&A and was craving to unlock Deande and it turned out to be a disappointing experience.

Dont get me wrong, i’ve seen good Deande players ■■■■■■ others and with all repsect to them I understand that with their level of skill they would do much better on any other harrasing character.

I really dont understand why her ult can’t be used out from stealth. Why she has worst damage and survivability out of all other assasin characters. Some people say that she is good at finishing weak opponents but really, who cant do that? phoebe wont chase and kill? rath? Shayne cant wont stun into kill at 20% ?)

I wish this character would have much more. And cheers to all palyers who still play her at decent level!

1 Like
#24

Exactly.

Her damage agility and mobility just don’t make her quite as effective in her role as she should be. And we aren’t talking major buffs here or anything. If all of her stats were given a buff of somewhere under 10%, she’d be much more viable. And maybe another 100-150 damage to her ult…or let her ult do shield pen damage, because anyone who has a shield completely soaks up that damage like it’s nothing.

And that’s the thing, plenty of other characters can go in and finish off weak enemies just as effectively. Deande may have the stealth advantage, but with her mediocre damage and need for insanely close range she still is more demanding to use than other characters. You may get to the enemy unnoticed, but you have to put in actual effort to secure the kill. Id argue that it’s way more practical and efficient to use Phoebe or Rath to kill the low health enemy.

Phoebe with the full loadout I mentioned previously…blink on top of the enemy. obliterate them in 3 seconds while they’re slowed. enhanced movement speed out with ult as cover damage to secure escape.

Rath with his silencing knockup. They’re stuck in place for a while. unload on them quick. use ult to speed it up if necessary. Dip out with incredibly high base sprint speed.

I’ve actually noticed myself doing worse with Deande recently since everyone knows how to easily counter her now.

  • if youre worried about escaping, just camp your accelerator since Deande is already pretty slow and you’ll be guaranteed to outrun her.
  • spam your off-hand knock back melee because it 100% puts you out of her hit range, just whittle her down from there
  • if you get knocked up by the uppercut, look down and try to juke your fall so she cant re-do the uppercut combo. if you fall in a place she doesn’t expect or turn to easily you can simply run away then.
  • don’t be afraid to get hit by her blink strike. it may damage and weaken you, but in it’s base form it has insane knockback, and poor positioning on Deande’s part (which happens frequently because she slow and does more chasing than out-maneuvering) can cause her to just knock you out of harms way completely. Far enough to where she’ll never catch up to you.
1 Like
#25

She’s a niche character with a role that’s useless because games sway back and forth too fast to have someone that goes around being “annoying” but can’t stand toe to toe with other melee and most range.

1 Like
#26

I am really new to Deande and played her like 2 days up to level 7 character, but here are mu little wish list for her. Its just my humble opinion.

Blink storm - i would enjoy her ult if this would be a single target ability with no damage-stun sharing that can be casted out of stealth to compensate the ridiculous 3 seconds of casting. I think the damage is okay as long as it remains a single target ability with the longest stun in the game.

Holotwin -I am okay with this ability. I think if the damage or some debuff effect will be built in here it will be kind of OP. Also if there will be a helix talent with creating 2 decoys it still can be OP as double twin explotion could do a ton of damage probably.

Burst dash - i am really suprised that out of all assasin classes they didnt give this ability any debuff that would help harrasing target. I mean stun if used out of stealth , or this ability could apply bleed effect lasting for 3-5 seconds that damages over time and doesnt give you to use your abilites for its period, or you cant being healed during bleeding.

I dont want burst dash to have just crazy damage buff and be used like a stupid backstab and oneshot people that are 30%. If Deande was ment to be not a huge damage dealer but the assasin who can be exteremely annoying with some crowd control i would definetely add some sort of stun, silence or bleed effect.

I remember very interesting mechanics of bleeding in path of exile were while the bleed effect was applied to you it would tick 150%-200% harder if you are running. So you were basically killing yourself and this bleed was forcing you to stand on your place for 3-5 seconds.

#27

All she needs is a movement speed buff and her melee hurtbox needs to be changed to match the other melee weapon users.

Hers is too narrow it makes no sense with her animations.

But beyond that she’s fine.

1 Like
#28

Dont get me wrong i am not complaining and Deande isnt even the character i played for quite a long time as S&A is my main. However i would really like to see any good video footage and explanation on how they do well with Deande and how they use the specific thing that only she can bring to the table. And not games in some premade where it may doesnt even matter which character you play.

I would really like to see any good suggestion or guide with video explaining how and which things can be done in the match only with the help of Deande. I know that S&A can make a huge pressure with smart and smooth fetch grabbing from lvl 1 to 4. And then you have your stun which you can use in so many ways. Rath harrases from the start with his slow (left helix) and his shockwave. And we all know what happens when he gets a 3 sec silence after shockwave.

I am not saying you cant play a good game with her i am just saying that this particular player could do better with any other assasin player.

#29

She’s very effective at disruption, and honestly I have to scoff at the notion that she needs a premade.

I never run with premades, yet consistently wreck with her to the point where I can’t play as other characters.

My k d ratio is absurd with her, and win loss ratio is like 70%w 30%l.

Really hoping Alani is actually good rather than garbage, in the hopes that I get another character to play as.

#30

Hmmmmm I have to disagree with people calling her a niche character or saying her AOE lvl one sucks. Also I do initiate with my stealth and do just fine easily going 12-2 in a good game or 7-2 on an average one. Her hit box is definitely wonky as how you see yourself swinging is quite lateral but how she is actually swinging while looking directly at her is constantly diagonals causing you to be missing alot.

Personally after matching a Deande i adopted someone’s play style by using her clones with absolute no counterplay. You use your clone from relative safe location and it attacks someone who has to either run from it or destroy it and damage themself. This forces people to either leave lane or gradually take damage, and the clone has great hit detection once you point it in the right direction it can land hits better than i can. Also using your range to help your clone remove a shield is vital. Eventually i just use my ulti for my team as disruption. Stunning that many people for that long can be insane in pushes especially in a FPS when you come from stealth from behind in a gun fight the enemy team is SCREWED. It works well under objectives and buildables as well as with your clone.

Deande does have some jarring weaknesses to AOE such as rath and ughhh galil, but besides that I can easily solo montanna and i couldn’t even do that before with pre nerfed ISIC so that’s saying something.

#31

I’m trying to learn her for capture myself and have a hard time killing even weaker enemies. Any advice on how to 1 on 1 montana or footage? Maybe getting him in a stun lock against a wall? I stopped attacking montanas 1v1 a while ago, but figure if i can do that I should be able to kill just about anybody, which would be awesome!

#32

You can’t really 1v1 montanna, i’ve tried. you can if you play quirks like mechanics dancing around him so that it’s hard for him to actually see you. But Deande isn’t mean to just battle down a tank like montanna 100-0 like that. she’s a finisher and even worse than caldarius she isn’t as great as exchanges/trades without getting damaged to the point where you need to fall back

My advice is there are two ways you can try to handle someone like lets say montanna you can:
A.) Strafe him with your fans making yourself move from left to right as much as possible while using any terrain advantages to hit and damage him more than he hits you. Bad part about this is taking too long killing montanna usually means u will lose the point as it’s in his advantage to take it and force u into a close range engage. Two taking too long also enables reinforcements which is never good for deande even though she can arguably hold her own against two people… least i do.

B.) you can try to use his big size against him mechanicly using the vices of the game against him. Constantly twisting around his right side making it hard for him to aim the minigun which is also towards his right side while dealing damage. The danger is obvious here as his development was meant to stop this from happening his shoulder charge or mansformation can easily stop you from this gimmick and leave you in a tight spot. Your best bet is to only try this if you know he just blew these. Your clones are your life use them to do damage not soak damage and explode using them up close enables them to confuse and help the gimmick. furthermore staying stealthed while using your clone isn’t always in your best advantage sometime it can literally double your damage output especially in a 1v1 and confuse them on who to target similar to shaco. you can attack both melee or move back and throw fans.

All in all though but Deande does really bad against defenders such as montanna or even worse galil with her aoe spin it’ s simply silly the damage she does while in a radius compared to most melee who are meant to kill people rather than tank. Other than that only other person to give you real trouble is kleese but he can be easily killed with fans.

#33

hmmm, what you say does make sense with what I’ve seen. it’s crazy the number of people who go after my cloan, which is weird cuz I’ve heard people say it’s easy to tell the difference. I know, when I was playing against Deande in PvP I always hated how she seemed to just compoletely disappear. I could never find her. And I can usually see the blurry image of oscar mike or shayne. Maybe it’s the level 1 jump thing or the speed boost so they get out of my line of site quickly.idk.
But my biggest question is about when to use fans at a distance or mellee. For instance, in your A comment, when you say strafe, I assume that means throwing fans? Many times I’ll get in a situation where I can either throw my fans or run in and attack. I usually run in as I assume this does more damage. However, this can lead to my death very quickly if i’m not careful. I try and save my invis. to escape also, but I do believe the timer is kina long. But I can see your point about using it for damage and to throw the enemy off balance. Maybe some cooldown gear might be a good idea? Along with say, attaack dmg and speed? I have a 0 cost -7.00 skill cooldown reduction (-recoil, so doesn’t matter) and a 0 cost (almost) 9% movement speed I like to use in pvp, mainly with thorn (tho her mvmnt is fine it’s fun being a speed demon). It’s so nice popping those things before the match has even started :slight_smile:

#34

In terms of gear you want Skill damage since deande completely is at the whim of her skills, movement speed so when you do have to run no one can catch you- it helps to pair movement speed with something like attack damage per say because although currently unsure i believe your clone gets your gear benefits. This means she gets attack speed, crit damage, etc buffs and you can get her to wreck alone. Last gear is tricky because crit damage is awesome if you get used to aiming for the head with Deande, or Cooldowns which can help u at those niche moments but overall CD in this game is currently pretty useless since you can barely amp it over 20% and thats lucky.

Btw if you want to catch a deande… LOOK AT HER EYES… her clone will always have Creepy Glowing Red EYES… shiver besides that her clone usually attacks in a pretty blind manner very rarely deviating from a forward motion without fear. idk i can smell fear so i can tell a clone pretty quickly.

  • Also yea i did mention strafe with ranged, another cool tactic is to attack with range so much it forces them to come engage you( if they are melee) at the very moment they swing clone and they will think the knockback animation is from you taking damage not cloning.