Why do weapons and grenades not get Mayhem Scaling?

Yes. I know is because Mayhem scaling for the characters arsenal came after the community asked for them. What I’m asking is why do we still have mayhem levels on our guns when the mayhem scaling system exists. Both things just increase damage. But unlike the mayhem scaling Action Skills and Shields receive now, once you get a high mayhem level weapon you can’t really decrease the Mayhem anymore since the guns are basically overleveled and you steamroll the game with them. I bring this up because, while it might seem kind of weird for some to decrease the difficulty , there are times where lowering the Mayhem level helps with some scenarios. The ones that comes to mind right now are when a boss is just a bullet sponge because of the scaling and with testing HP values of new content when it comes out.

Also, while there’s no evidence to suggest something like this: What if the devs were to add more mayhem levels? Wouldn’t we have to refarm all new gear again? You could make the argument that this is the entire point of the Mayhem 2.0 system, to get overleveled guns like with the OP Levels of BL2. but I would say that it isn’t, because the Mayhem Scaling is way higher than the weapon level scaling and the main attraction is making the enemies stronger (since without it the game is way too easy) and adding the modifiers to change how the game is played (would prefer not to discuss them in this thread pls).

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Yeah, adding mayhem lvl on gear was the worse idea. Now it’s exactly like you said, once you find high mayhem gear, there is no point playing on the lower difficulty.
I would love that change of having universal mayhem scaling based on actual mayhem, not the drop itself.

In case of second question, I’m afraid it’s highly possible and new levels of mayhem will be added in Year2. That of course will require to re-farm all the gear with current system.


This is not 100% true. If you compare a L55M10 weapon with the same weapon at L65M0, I doubt you would see way higher damage. It basically works like OP levels, adding levels on top of regular ones, with a similar scaling (as if your L65M10 gun was L75M0).

And to answer your question… unless the system changes with a level cap increase, it would be unfair to just have such scaling in an update.

Removing Mayhem level damage on guns, you would instantly see complaints from players running M10, that made actual efforts to get the best possible gear, and who would not accept players only running around at M0 would have access to the exact same thing.

It’s not ‘What if’ it’s called ‘when’.
And yes you’ll have to refarm all. I guess that’s the intention of those mayhem lvl s.

They will find a way to force us to refarm all gear. Like they did in the past. Maybe not a new lvl cap and no new mayhem lvls. Maybe ArmsRaceOmgWtfMayhemIsSoAwesomeAndNoBullshit lvls, which get their own scaling because they are so omgwtf.
GBX is only interested in 1 thing to get as much money out of your pocket as possible. To get that done, they need more content that people must have to play the game in an enjoyable way. Powercreep, OP gunz in dlcs & extrem high enemy tp is very a efficient way for that. Balance the game isn’t.
GBX gets more & more greedy. When I see how much they advertise the next DLC, I think it’s gonna be like krieg DLC. Much talking, no content. And due to its gonna be a new mode, buggy as hell.

I love BL3 and the devs who made it but I hate GBX’s leadership and how their greed ruins the game :rage:


To be honest, I didn’t look for the actual value of level up scaling (And I can’t seem to find it now). I know that most of the Mayhem Scaling at M10 is x31. Compared to 10 levels overleveled, I don’t believe it came close to a x31 kind of difference but I can be wrong.

As for going forward with said change: Yes. I know it would be controversial if not done properly (which is a fair observation considering GB track record lately, but I digress). Such a change would requiere a level cap, but not necessarily for the Player. It could be added with more Mayhem Levels (pls no) or another overhaul of the Mayhem System as a whole (2.0 doesn’t sound to me like the final itteration tbh).

Hey, I don’t like a lot of what GBX has been doing with the game as much as the next guy, but I would prefer to discuss what I proposed in this thread rather than it getting sidetracked like many other threads on the forums. Not trying to be rude or anything, just want to keep it focused on the topic. The “What if?” I proposed was just to add a hypothetical point of view (or something like that)


It’s quite hard to give exact figures now I got rid of underlevelled guns and that rebalance patch doesn’t help keeping track of relative values.

From what I see, guns scaling on Mayhem is clearly not x31 from M0 to M10.

Also keep in mind the regular level scaling is not linear, going from L57 to L60 was roughly +20% gun damage, while going from L60 to L65 was closer to +80% gun damage. But that’s my personal feeling, maybe I got lucky after L60 and got better gun parts.

Wouldn’t the weapons scaling be easily confirmed by getting a part locked weapon at different Mayhem levels? After all, they are literally levels as secret anointments.

The scale is x1,09 per level, that means 54% increase from lvl 60 to 65. Mayhem 10 weapon is x2,37 more powerful than M0.

This multiplier could be implemented to the Mayhem level as suggested in the first post, so at M10 your wepon would deal x2,37 dmg but enemies health was set to x100 (so exactly the same numbers what we have now).
Right now all the balance is made only to keep more guns capable on M10 which is a trap, cause buffing base dmg is really bad for base game. Thats why M1.0 was way better in term of scaling.


Oh right! I forgot the impact giving guns Mayhem Scaling could have for base game replayability (which I believe has been covered in other threads). But yes, it is worth mentioning that here too. In my experience, some of the guns that have been balanced (and the DLC guns) for M10 even break the balance in most Mayhem levels (1-6), leaving the need for so many levels kind of meaningless.

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Agreed 100%. The old M4 was a bit bullet spongey, but bullet spongey seems to be the name of the game for Gearbox, so…

They never should have added that special hidden Mayhem part to guns and grenades. Just should have left them alone and scaled M2.0 so that M10 was more or less equal to the old M4 in terms of enemy HP. (And this is how you fix it, Gearbox. :wink: Deactivate that mayhem part, (re)hide the text on item cards indicating the mayhem level, and scale the enemy HP in a truly mathematical way as you go up mayhem levels rather than those completely arbitrary jump-increases.)

Like you said, now you can grab an M10 weapon and it’s too OP and ez-mode to play in lower mayhem levels. If you have different characters at different mayhem levels as a matter of preference or comfort levels, you’ll need to have all these sets of mayhem level gear farmed up and it limits swapping gear between characters unless you want to play them all at the same level. Find a great grenade while playing M10 Moze that would be great for Zane’s SNTNL oh wait, Zane’s stuff is all M4 because of desired anointments or whatever other reasons. Giving him that M10 grenade would feel cheesey. (Well, to me anyway. I know there are some players that use different levels of gear to buff/nerf as they see fit, which is pretty clever, but my OCD just kicks in too violently for me to try to do that heh.)

Adding that mayhem part just adds another dimension of farming nightmares in a game that’s full of farming nightmares (ie freaking anointments.)


Good post @FL4KK3R,

IMO this is a fantastic idea, and one I’m not sure I have seen yet.

Maybe this can be a reality with Mayhem 3.0, I have always heard that the 3rd time is a charm.

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Personally, I like having the ability to take higher power Mayhem weapons into lower Mayhem content.

To be fair, while i agree that people would absolutely call it unfair, it wouldn’t actually be in practice; when mayhem weapon scaling was introduced, all the effort it took to get m10 gear was to farm an m6 yellowcake then walk through everything in m10 with it without breaking a sweat

Unless it was really hot at the time.

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It truly is a shame that this thread didn’t gain the momentum it should have. I still think this was one of the best ideas I have seen pitched on this site.

Edit: On another note, if Mayhem scaling on the base damage of weapons is what has caused enemies to deal Mayhem 10 damage this could also fix that dilemma.


I’m not quite sure about that. The mayhem multiplier would probably still apply to enemy weapons on whatever mayhem level you play at. It seems to be something of a global bonus applying to anything that has guns (hence why FL4K’s Jabbers and Zane’s clone both get mayhem scaling on their guns).

As to the OP idea, it’s one of those things that is a great idea that will never happen. Aside from the aforementioned complaints that people who farmed M10 gear wouldn’t want other people given M10 gear for free essentially, it would also effect the longevity of the game for some people. There are players who love the combat and gameplay of Borderlands and would love to just be able to play on whatever difficulty they felt like, and this change would be great for their replayability. But others LIVE to farm, and they pretty much put the game down as soon as they get everything they want. GB is more than likely banking on the majority of endgame players being the latter type, or at least that the former won’t be so put off by frequent refarming that they put the game down forever.

I do agree with this idea in spirit though since the scaling of everything aside from weapons is so different to weapon scaling. In OP levels everything scaled as if going up a level, so all of the scaling was consistent. Even if you did have to farm for new OP level gear and got AS damage for free, you got the same amount of damage for both, so going up and down in levels didn’t lead to drastic damage differences between different parts of the character kit. With Mayhem, going from M0-M10 means gaining 2.5x weapon damage, but 31x AS damage. You actually lose way more playing on lower Mayhem levels with non-gun builds.


I understood that the enemy M10 damage was the result of enemies having Mayhem 10 weapons/grenades.

If all weapons/grenade mods were set to M0 and a sliding multiplier added to the Mayhem system like Shields/Actions Skills/melee I would think you could simply exclude enemies from that scaling multiplier.

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If the mayhem scaling is a global buff applied to weapons, I’m not sure if you could exclude enemies from it. You more than likely can I suppose, but I doubt it would actually end up working that way.

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I have said it many times on here, I am by no means a programmer. I guess in my head it seems like it could be done, this could be a much bigger task than it seems on the surface though.

“They got it right on shields, why can’t they use a similar code for weapons and grenades?” This is how it looks in my brain :sweat_smile:

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