Why does everyone take Firestorm?

I haven’t played Montana much since I mastered him, but when I did he felt almost overpowered. He has high DPS, a huge health pool, tons of damage reduction, and CC on every ability by default. However, there has been very little talk about nerfing him, and I think that’s because of how bad Firestorm is.

The level 4 helix “Firestorm” removes Hailstorm’s amazing slow effect while also causing massive overheating problems. In return, Firestorm adds a DOT that does about 24 DPS, and does not stack on the same enemy. The result is less CC, less DPS, and less survivability if you also take “Feeling the Burn” at level 6.

And yet, every Montana I see online takes Firestorm. Is there something I’m missing here, or is every other Montana just unaware of how bad this helix is?

In PvE Firestorm is extraordinary. In PvP Hailstorm is far better. I guess people like firestorm because it feels like you pump out more damage. In reality you probably pump out more damage with hailstorm because you actually land all of your bullets on the slowed enemy battleborn. Orendi and Miko for example are absolute food for Montana because they have low health, easy crits, and depend on movespeed which is neutered by hailstorm.

An argument could be made that firestorm is better for clearing minion waves, but I disagree. With hailstorm I slow the shepherd which usually separates it from the other minions, meaning its overshield is wasted and the wave overall falls much faster.

Also taking hailstorm frees you up for other useful helix options, and synergises better with the low-heat-health-regen-perk, which is useful for the times when combat dies down (between team fights).

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Maybe for the lore challenge? If they want to build for DPS they’ll go firestorm because you grab the helix for better accuracy at high heat, and lose HP for unlimited bullets. Then with penetrating bullets you can set everything on fire !

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If you take Feeling the Burn, Firestorm, and run the legendary “Oath of the Sustained” you can fire indefinitely and tank all self damage.

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Penetrating bullets (Icicles) is on the same level as -health for firing at max heat (Feeling the Burn). You either lose DPS from overheating, or lose DPS from not having penetration.

Also, I find high heat more manageable with “The Cooler” than with Firestorm as I can heat up to the limit with normal fire, then activate Hailstorm at high heat for 8 to 10 seconds of god mode, then shoot normally for a few more seconds before overheat.

You can fire nearly indefinitely just by not taking Firestorm, no legendary required. You also get to keep Hailstorm’s slow, which is much better than Firestorm’s DOT.

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true dat. although I never take icicles. it’s worthless. I take shield strength increase (swole shield).

I think it’s also because:

  1. He’s a HUGE target. Sure he has a lot of health and a small crit-box, but neither of those really help him if he’s surrounded or slowed. He also can’t really use cover very effectively, unlike the smaller Battleborn like Alani.
  2. He’s slow. I dare say he’s about as slow as Alani, but he doesn’t have any helix upgrades to negate that.
  3. Two of his CC abilities require him to be fairly close and both can be avoided if you can see them coming.
  4. He can’t really fire continuously without those two helix upgrades you mentioned and both of them make him more vulnerable to damage. Besides, Firestorm only lasts, what, 2 seconds or so?

Now don’t get me wrong, I like the big lug, but I don’t think he needs any adjustments; I like him just the way he is, bad puns and all. :dukecheese:

I took it for the lore challenge, but switched over to The Cooler, Cold Blooded, and Barrel Cooling, along with his legendary flak vest, so I could fire longer. I also take Weather Man, Icicles and Icy Resolve to get further benefit from Hailstorm.

It did seem that way, but I find Hailstorm to be better, especially in a 5-man team so our healer isn’t having to constantly keep an eye on me. I do take Pumped Up, but even that has its limitations.

I don’t play PVP (yet), so I may change my mind after a match or two, but I did pretty well against the bots in a private Meltdown match. I would still play the big lug as I do in PVE: stay in the back near cover and try not to get too far away from my team, especially the healer.

Theres been no nerf talk because (aside from the aforementioned size=focus down) most melee DPS will absolutely Slaughter Montana lol “Oh you managed to pull off a stun? I suppose you just increased your lifespan by…4-5 seconds?”

Icicles is far from worthless. If you hit one extra enemy with it, you’ve just doubled your DPS, and the slow will keep them lined up for sustained damage. That said, swole shield is also a good choice.

Most melees will either be unable to tank his damage or unable to deal enough damage, if not both. Also, Montana can use Hailstorm’s slow to keep enemy melees out of melee range while still dealing full damage.

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Honestly, I’ve used both pretty equally and I just prefer firestorm. I feel like it is more effective in the early helix choices and hailstorm is more effective in the later choices.

This may or may not be true, but I feel like my health regen is much better with firestorm, the DPS seems noticeably better and when it comes right down to it, given the choice between slowing enemies and burning them up…uh, let’s melt some ■■■■■■■ faces!

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I’m talking more about maximising DPS by keeping Montana’s gun at full heat, with the Oath of the Sustained you can tank self damage and keep Montana’s weapon at full heat for long periods of time over sustained fire.

If you hit one extra enemy with it, you’ve just doubled your dps for only the bullets that hit multiple enemies within the duration of hailstorm.

I’ve tested it in meltdown at least… couldn’t find a useful position to actually use it… so maybe for it to be useful:

If you are standing in a perfect spot for it and If you hit one extra enemy with it, you’ve just doubled your dps for only the bullets that hit multiple enemies within the duration of hailstorm.

Montana shoots from quite high up, so it is hard to get the right angles to use it properly. At least on flat ground. A constant shield boost is far more reliable for my liking.

If theyre charging head on? Sure…but a ganked (which is incredibly easy to do due to his size) Monty with no healer is usually a dead Monty. Too big, too slow and not near bursty enough to deal with a Rath, Phoebe or Dragon etc.

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Icicles is more useful in pve and incursion because there’s more enemies with larger hitboxes packed into tighter spaces. Meltdown and Capture are more spread out, so icicles will be more situational in those modes. For meltdown specifically, it would be useful for clearing a minion wave, especially if an enemy battleborn is going for the overshield.

You would miss out on the multi-target DPS from icicles. You also don’t lose much heat while using The Cooler, so that gives you 10 to 15 seconds of nearly the same DPS, which becomes stronger if you replace the Oath with DPS focused gear.

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As a PSA, attack speed is the only good stat on Montana (dps wise). Skill damage only affects hailstorm (and lumberjack and mansformation, which no-one cares about for damage), and attack damage doesn’t affect hailstorm. Attack speed boosts both.

Unfortunately I lack that particular item. If I had it, I’d probably switch back over to Firestorm. I still use Hailstorm so our healer doesn’t have to constantly keep an eye on me.

[quote=“AttnDefDis, post:11, topic:1504141”]
This may or may not be true, but I feel like my health regen is much better with firestorm…[/quote]

Cold-blooded heals up to +7 per second provided you’re a: not firing and b: have Hailstorm active while Hot-blooded goes up to +9, so you probably are seeing a faster healing with Firestorm and not Hailstorm. I can see using Monty’s legendary item along with the various heat reducer upgrades to make him like a Hellborn Krieg: the hotter he burns, the more dangerous he is. :fire: