Why heavy weapons do not deal heavy damage? [Benedict]

Hello!

In these topics, i need some explanation about obvious numbers of several weapons.
OFC battleborn is not a usual shooter, but it looks like a shooter and behave like a shooter. And i do not get - why some shooter rules are violated.

Part 1. Benedict’s rocket launcher.
So, you’ve probably heard of such games as “quake 3 arena” or “unreal tournament”.
There, 1 direct hit with a rocket deals 60 damage (from 100 base hit points). I understand that 60% damage from single rocket would be OP in battleborn, but what do i see now in game:
level 1, direct rocket hit deals 130-150 damage. So literally i need to hit 10 rockets directly to kill one “squishy” target. Really?
First of all, i can just calculate the DPS of rocket launcher at every level and compare it to… let’s say alani’s basic attacks. Or to marquis pistol.

Here we can notice that rocket launcher DPS is the same or less than usual dps of other weapons. It’s not about single hit damage, it is about 3 important things:

a. fire rate
b. projectile speed
c. hitbox of projectile and splash damage.

So, when i fly with benedict in the skies, i fire some missiles into enemies and i see that they fly way too SLOW. Literally, any character with speed bonus runs faster than a missile. Even having a talent +35% speed - it is not enough.

I’ve seen so many times, that when i shoot into ground even in melee combat - to activate splash damage effect - if my target jumps - it does not hit.
So, splash damage range becomes “classical” (as most missiles
in most shooter games do) only on level 7, where missiles get +50% raduis.

And about fire rate. I’m totally ok about 1 missile per second. But, according to the fact that missile is slower than a bullet shot, i think it should deal lots more damage than that shot. It’s fire rate can be compared to sniper rifle of marquise.
It is easier to land a hit with instantly flying bullet from bigger range under scope and deal more damage. It is not correct!
If player that chose benedict should try harder to hit targets, then his benefit should be bigger.

So, I think that benedict’s primary needs 4 buffs:

  • +35% missile speed (get another +35% with talents for very high speed in some builds would be an ok option).
  • +50% missile splash radius by default (delete helix talent with additional radius).
  • Missile direct damage should be doubled. But the bigger is distance between missile ground hit and our target, the less damage our target do receive.
  • Splash damage should slightly knock enemies back.

And what do you think?

1 Like

I think benedict is just perfect the way he is.
First of all, why should they follow shooter “rules” ? They can do whatever they feel like, its their work after all.
Also, with his ability to hurt+track with rockets and fly above the battleground, his normal rockets are pretty dangerous and I feel they do a good amount of damage. About the speed : you need to aim where your enemy is going, not where he is. If you anticipate well, Benedict is pretty solid.
And almost everything you think is lacking with is kit is in his helix. So the more the game goes on, the deadlier you are. I don’t think they should change that.
Maybe you should practice more with it ? I remember the first few games I had with him made me feel like you but after I learned how to use him : man I love to roast ennemies from above with this narcisstic bird.
Maybe I’m totally wrong too I feel like he’s in a good spot right.

[quote=“motakudgi, post:1, topic:1500956, full:true”]but what do i see now in game:
level 1, direct rocket hit deals 130-150 damage.[/quote]
184 damage.

Six, actually.

Hah, don’t. Everyone say she have a way too high DPS, even those who say she isn’t OP.

That’s better. Strange, but better.

[quote=“motakudgi, post:1, topic:1500956, full:true”]
And about fire rate. I’m totally ok about 1 missile per second. But, according to the fact that missile is slower than a bullet shot, i think it should deal lots more damage than that shot. It’s fire rate can be compared to sniper rifle of marquise.
It is easier to land a hit with instantly flying bullet from bigger range under scope and deal more damage. It is not correct!
If player that chose benedict should try harder to hit targets, then his benefit should be bigger.[/quote]
You only compare damage, but not survivability, and agility of both characters.
Marquis is a camper with tunnel vision. You’ll sit in one position, and shoot what’s in front of you and that’s it.
Benedict you’ll literally jump at your enemies throat, and hunt them when they’ll try to flee. And if any unforeseen problems occur, you can just fly away.
They don’t fit the same role, you can’t really compare them that way.

[quote=“motakudgi, post:1, topic:1500956, full:true”]

  • +35% missile speed (get another +35% with talents for very high speed in some builds would be an ok option).[/quote]
    You have two solution for that: The helix, or attacking at close range (Which i do)

Nope, because he got an helix for that.

First: that’d be insane.
At level 1 you’d do: 368 damage, and 1104 with a critical.
At level 10 you’d do: 494 damage, and 1482 with critical.
And no gear. Even Marquis can’t kill someone in two shots with a critical.

Second: It already do that. There is splash damage falloff.

That’d be completely OP against Melee characters, and annoying to everyone else.

-That he is an Advanced character, and is supposed to be hard to play.
-He is level dependant but he snowball quite hard in exchange (Aka, the more/faster he gain levels, the more out of control he become)
-At Level 10 you can do 2772 damage in roughly 6 seconds.
-Hard to predict where he’ll attack from.
-Near impossible to keep him in place.

And as always, i’d suggest you take a look at this:

2 Likes

Master of Benedict with 10+ Killstreak and a lot of good K/D/A games here!

Benedict only has three problems, and the third one isn’t really even an issue.

  1. Base Reload Speed is too low, so even though you really want faster rockets, you HAVE to take the reload speed helix to allow him to 1v1 people without long wait times between salvos.
  2. Multiloader Helix is absolute trash worthless horrible never again why why why it’s awful.
  3. Ultimate slightly low in damage (Phoenix Protocol alleviates this a little).

His damage and design feel great, and he can even 1v1 melee assassins that try to hunt him down all thanks to his kit. I only feel truly threatened by an enemy Marquis, because he’ll shoot me out of the sky while I’m flipping and jumping circles around the rest of his team.

Well, i’ve played several matches with benedict and i see that he is mostly a close range fighter.
While having low hit points, he is forced to go into melee zone to hit missiles, that’s what i feel playing him.

So literally i need to hit 10 rockets directly to kill one "squishy" target. Really?

Six, actually.

Ok, and how many times should i hit with marquis sniper rifle? The same amount?
Why instant hitting bullets deal more damage than a slow projectile, while both has low attack speed?
My opinion is: the harder is hit to an enemy, the more benefit gains a player that shoots.


And the baddest thing that i noticed:
mellka grenade (on reloading) that is shot in some angle (30 dergees, for example) fly by an ark and hit the ground faster, than benedict’s missile, that fly by a straight line.
So it means that grenade flight speed is almost x2 times faster! This is totally not good.

First: that’d be insane.
At level 1 you’d do: 368 damage, and 1104 with a critical.
At level 10 you’d do: 494 damage, and 1482 with critical.
And no gear. Even Marquis can’t kill someone in two shots with a critical.

Well, ofc it is meant that missile shouldn’t do critical damage, and on level 10 the missile damage would be like 600.
Also, if benedict shoots under himself (to the ground) he should receive splash damage.
Marquis can deal ~1000 damage from 2 shots. From insane range and with instant flying bullets.
So, why benedict can’t deal same damage with slow flying missiles?

Master of Benedict with 10+ Killstreak and a lot of good K/D/A games here!

Benedict is so great that players preffer not to pick him in most cases. This character (by players opinion) is in grade “c” (probably it means tier3 characters). So, in this post i argued about “why people think he is in tier3”.

Get in the melee zone? Seriously? I don’t think this is a good idea. And Marquis is a sniper. His job is to stay behind and shoot you with his gun. Your job is to go up there, shoot rockets and force them to back up : you’re supposed to push your lane with him, which he does well ( and he’s the best for capture flying around getting places quickly).

And why do you keep comparing projectiles ? Alani shoots water and it hurts like hell. So , from what I can see, she should do no damage instead and make people wet and the ground slippery? It’s a science fiction/fantasy/unreal setting. And you know what hurts the ennemies most ? It’s teamwork. You are supposed to play with 4 other people so all those damage count are not that important I think : you have teammates who should help you kill the other guys.

Like I said , I feel Benedict is great, his helix upgrades are right on and make him a threat on the battlefield. You got to learn how to use him. Usually? I shoot 5 rockets, fly up, launch homing rocket (which reloads my clip instantly) and blow everything up that’s still in my way. Pretty aggressive and helpful for the team I think.

1 Like

Alani’s dps is too big for a support, it is true.

Actually i do the same - i fly with benedict, shoot missiles. But i do not hit anyone (in 90% of cases) if distance between me and my target is bigger than “1 second missile flight distance”. So, if i stay at mid- or long-range, i do not hit anyone or anything.

You can obviously say that “l2p nab, get used to hit stuff”, but:
when i play with characters that have fast projectile speed, my accuracy is about 80% or more (for example, with toby).

So, if i want to hit 4 missiles from 5, I AM FORCED to stay in close range, so my missiles could fly less than 1 second before detonation.

Also i can - and i actually do - compare benedict to phappa (or phara?) - in overwatch. They are literally the same characters (excluding ultimate). And there, i could hit people while flying far above them. And when i hit them - i feel the damage.
In battleborn, were missile flight time is about 2-3 seconds, it is just near-to-impossible. No one can predict enemy player behaviour for more than 1 second. So hitting targets from sky is just luck and nothing more.

Benedict is not a sniper.
He pushes minions, and is extremely hard to hit in close combat due to his mobility, while he deals massive damage that is guaranteed to hit due to splash damage.

I’ve been wrecked trying to fight Benedicts up close, and I’ve wrecked people with some CQB Benedict.

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Rockets do well to keep people moving at ranged. If there’s a Marquis sniping at others across the map, just keep spamming rockets at him, and he can’t really stand and snipe.

I still think you need to learn how to use his gun. Why do most of people I see using benedict get his missiles spot on? Because they know where to aim with the specifics of this gun. So that will be my last post on this thread because it seems we all agree, except you, that his kit is fine. I think he should stay exactly the same as he is right now with his high mobility, good clear and push and high damage overall.

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Because BALANCES!

I think they should steal about 10% from his reload helix and give it to his base reload speed to make him more palatable during early game. Perhaps they could also boost the propulsion helix as well so people will actually choose it.

Other than that I’d say he’s close to being a balanced character.

Edit: Oh, maybe they could give him a helix that makes his hawkeye rocket slow to turn him into a mini thumper turret. Make it a mutation to compete with the instant reload and triple rocket helixes. Just thought that would be cool.

I think Benedict just needs to have his Helix rearranged so that the radius bonus and speed bonus come earlier.