Why I enjoy Mayhem 2.0 and like the path BL3 is going. (Feedback for Developers)

Aside from pets, action skills, melee, and grenades not scaling, (all of which can be simply fixed), I’m enjoying Mayhem 2.0. I’ll explain why.

So at launch we started off with 3 mayhem levels. M1 and M2 they were largely unnoticed. M3 was difficult, and depending on the modifiers you got, nearly impossible. We complained about how these modifiers had a strong negative impact on our builds. Modifiers would randomly change from changing zones or reloading the game. It was completely random and many of us didn’t like it.

So they developers listened and made changes for M4. There was only 2 modifiers. A buff for us and a buff for the enemy. This made Mayhem far more consistent, especially when testing the performance of builds. However, at first many people complained about M4 enemies having health, shield, and armor scaled way higher than past Mayhem levels. This only lasted a short while, though. Many people put in work for build to make M4 playable. Short time later every VH has a few builds that can solo M4 TTD, a 4 player scaled raid.

Mayhem 2.0 launches. As you can see from the forums, Reddit, YouTube, and other social media many people are complaining about M2.0. “Enemy’s are bullet sponges.” or “Mayhem Modifiers are killing me.” Some like it, some don’t.

Mayhem 2.0 modifiers are more than just the pluses or minuses of the past mayhem system. In the old system I completely forgot M4 had modifiers. When M3 was the highest it would force you to completely switch weapons or make aspects of your build worthless. “My shotgun build sucks with -##% shotgun damage. Better reload in the game.” This made boss farming a pain as reloading could get you a terrible modifier roll.

With the new system, they did some things right:

  1. First, they made it so the modifiers could be changed in the menu at any time. You can continue to reroll until you get what you want.
  2. Second, they made the modifiers stay for that VH regardless of changing zones or logging off. Find something that works for you and you can keep it forever.
  3. Third, these are not just pluses and minuses that drastically change your damage output or sustain by just throwing in a number. These are actual “Gameplay Changing Modifiers.”

There is a very common way many people are looking at these modifiers right now. That mindset is, “What modifier has the least impact on my playstyle.” Like rolling Boundary Issues and staying farther away. While that is fine, it’s just forcing more of the same. The discussion then becomes, “What incredibly strong weapon can I use to kill just to get through higher content.”

Instead, I believe people should be looking at the modifiers another way. I mean, this is Borderlands after all. What would Borderlands be without a little abuse. “How can I abuse these modifiers.” Some are already trying to shift the argument. “Elemental pools suck, but not with a transformer.” “Healy Avenger heals the already spongy enemy, but you can also heal you and your shield.” “Floor is lava sucks, but you have an easy way to proc Elemental projector.”

I could go on, but you get the point. These modifiers don’t just need to be considered for your build, but your build should also be considered for the modifiers. It’s only been a few days. Players find wonky or crazy interactions sometimes weeks or months later. Heck, the Pimpernel was considered a terrible sniper for 2.5 years after the DLC it was released from, until someone found out how to make it work with the Bee shield and make all the shots crit. For all we know some of these modifiers could have a wonky effect that makes the higher content way easier with out using OP guns.

As for those OP guns and crazy scaling. I’m having no issue. Even without anointment I, and others, can get though the content and not have it feel like a slog fest. The trick is just getting the scaled weapons. I wouldn’t try OP8 with OP2 weapons. So don’t do M10 with M4 weapons.

Now, that isn’t to say there are glaring issues. We don’t have an indicator for what Mayhem level a gun is, Pets/Action Skill/Melee/Grenades don’t scale. This is also directly effecting your damage output. Before M2.0 they largely didn’t do much, but it was still a small amount. Now it’s an even smaller amount, but as we saw from updates to Zane’s clone and Iron Bear, the developers are clearly capable of improving the system in place. Grenades not scaling, I think, has a bigger impact that some believe.

As for Shields, COMs, and Relics not scaling. In my opinion, as someone who pushed multiple VHs to OP8, I think that is a good thing (Partially. I’ll explain lower) for two reasons.

  1. Power creep. It’s the obvious answer and one that will happen anyway, but why speed it up.
  2. Sustain. Currently the enemies in M10 do the same amount of damage as they do in M0. Only difference is if there is a mayhem modifier doing something silly.

This means that many of the shield that people use are still viable. You can still take the same number of damage. This also means you aren’t punished for gaining more health if you have life steal. BL2 in high OP levels became, “Don’t increase your health, it makes it harder to health gate with a Moxi weapon.” It forced the meta to be all about Moxi weapons and weapon swap speed.

The reason I said partially, was because many shields or relics provided some sort of damage and not just utility. Nova shields, Slams, etc. These absolutely need to be scaling with the higher mayhem levels. A M10 and M0 Nova shield should have the same capacity, rate, and delay, but the M10 Nova shield should be doing comparable damage to that which is required for M10.

So, that is why I like M2.0, why I think BL3 is on a good path, and why I think with some small tweaks, scaling, and quality of life fixes everything should be great for BL3 in the future.


I wish I had the same opinion on this update. I would be very happy now.

I literally grew up with the previous Borderlands games. The story, the universe, the adventure.
I could say the same for BL3: different worlds to explore with a lot of different features and characters :smiley:.

Now, with this update I feel confused. Not because it is hard to play (actually, I’ve managed to go through m10 pretty well) but because it forced me to change the way I’ve enjoyed playing this game up until now.

Plus, there’s the feeling that the company which made my all-time favourite games is shaking me off from their playerbase.

I feel kinda sad :cry:


Outside of a few OP weapons, the bulk of the weapon pool has not scaled well at all. On MH Level SMGs and ARs (outside of the outliers) are particularly bad.

This has taken away alot of the fun factor the game has had.
I like to be challenged, but entertained as well.

The Cartel event I consider entertaining, but the Mayhem 2.0 has put a dark cloud over the fun of it.


Finding ways to make all the interesting gimmicks in the game work in my favor is the soul of Borderlands for me, and these Mayhem Modifiers just add to this. I adjust me (build/strategy/difficulty/tactics) to be able to use some entertaining gimmick (red text, modifier, character skill, whatever), instead of planting my flag in a single build or two and expecting the game to cater to them.

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I am having no issues with m10. Honestly, I think it’s great. I have not had to change my build at all. Same build, shield, com, grenade and artifact that i used in m4. Only changes are now I have m10 versions of my favorite weapons. I’m having a blast with 2.0, it’s all about rolling modifiers that best fit your play style without being detrimental to your build. I play with lootsplosion, chilling them softly, laser fare and rogue lite. These are the ones that work best for me. All in all, 2.0 is great and I’m very satisfied with where bl3 is at and have high hopes for the future of this game.

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Yeah seeing some of the crazy combinations to take advantage of the Mayhem modifiers are great. Buddy system and the ice orb are great for getting second winds. You can also use them to ricochet certain bullets.


I agree with you. :+1:

What are your weapons and what is your class?

Do you do takedowns?

All ALL… Of.my favorite weapons are no longer viable. Unless i wanna spend 5 minutes per trash mob

It chased my friends and myself and a whole lot of other players away to other games imo this m2 crap can get shoved . I’ll never understand why gaming companies chase off their customers and find satisfaction in the few that remains.

Good for you buddy im the last one left
Outta all my friends and family
No one wants to play. Theyre not voicing their opinion here.

Who wants to sound like a whiner…over a product they paid for that changed massively amirite?

There are alot of vaibility issues. Splitscreen forever a whole slew with loot table coeeupted by world drops since mayhem 2.0 launch each hotfix would break something else. Hell i just poiinted it out.
I don’t like the direction theyre going cuz it doesnt seem like anywhere much.

When you have half a hundred thousand ppl saying this is crap right now.

Well ya know…
Nvm. I dont think gbx cares about their opinions anyways.

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