Why is Moze / Iron Bear considered bad?

If anyone could clear this up for me it would be appreciated.

I have seen people saying things like Moze being better outside of her mech than inside it. However, throughout my leveling experience and currently farming @ level 50, the raw boss-melting power I get from Iron Bear is still unmatched by anything else I have played with. The thing seems to do a pretty ridiculous amount of DPS compared to my guns, and it is not even close.

Is this just a case of me not knowing any better (yet) or is there some community perception thing going on here?

Edit: I have been using Bottomless Mags tree w. Specialist Bear talent on M2/3.

Originally ib was well… pointless; starting around level 40, since then its had a nice boost in health; and later - more so now weve actually got a decent damage buff, i still do more damage out than in though

Iron Bear has always excelled in Normal Mode, no-mayhem. It’s when you get into MH3/4 that it falls off significantly. It’s at this point Moze will be noticeably stronger outside IB then in. There have been recent buffs and they went quite a long way to making IB better and there are viable M4 IB builds now but I still feel personally Moze is quite stronger outside IB.


I think the problem is that IB gets very weak benefits from the equipment. Other characters get full equipment and use their active abilities at the same time. The only way to play effectively for moze is through the IB ending and autoBear mechanics. This means that you can only use IB for full fuel as fun against weak mobs.

I would like to be able to put at least the COV weapon on IB. While having the ability to supply some kind of special ability for IB. It can even be passive, which changes the principle of action of the IB or gives additional advantages, such as the ability to have a shield in the form of health and receive benefits from the equipped shield.

But I think the gear box was afraid to implement the Salvador mechanics that was OP. But I feel like IB just doesn’t have enough interaction with items.

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Hi everyone. I play an Iron Bear build of my own making. V35 grenades+Lock and Speed load in combo with Vampyr allow IB ti leeach his entire health bar back. I can stand toe to toe with most mobs, as long as I’m firing grenades they can’t overwhelm the life leeching

My IB melts M3, I was able to beat Antagonizer solo on M4 but it took awhile.

I have not found a weapon that can out DPS bears V35 nor leech 80k health as fast

Edit: I’m adding pics .wait

This might be more based on your perception - the Bottomless Mags tree does help boost Moze’s DPS but mostly by increasing magazine size and ammo regen. There are only a few skills in the tree that help boost the numbers per bullet and not by a huge amount.

Also, Iron Bear has his own arsenal and mechanics - the only pieces of gear Moze needs to get the most out of him are a shield which boosts max health (which means more max armour for IB,) a grenade that’s anointed so that there’s a 20% chance of a grenade spawning when IB takes damage, and a legendary class mod that benefits his DPS and/or his fuel-efficiency. Everything else in terms of building up Iron Bear, is done via the skill trees.

Overall, the general consensus is that even though it’s a lot easier and less gear-dependent to get the max out of Iron Bear, Moze’s maximum does more DPS than he can dish out. Not only that, but a strict Auto Bear build allows Moze to combine her DPS (and refresh her anointment bonuses more frequently) with Iron Bear’s DPS so the pair of them are doing work at the same time.


I have one point into Security Bear.
IB has 80k health, 50% off that added as shield, I have his damage increased by 82% (stainless steal, scorching rpms, specialist bears.

This is an M3 IB. Moze deals splash damage to leech her CD back, you can make it jump from 5sec on the countdown timer to 1sec using Juliet’s Dazzle for example.

(increased CD rate EVERY time Moze deals Splash damage, Explosive Punctuation)

This is a question not only of weapons, but also of build. If you ignore IB and only do for moze DPS, you get better results. And here is ion canon, which can oneshot mobs without a build, because the accumulation of damage from guardian rang.

Man I don’t look up info or seek popular items, I love discovery. So far with my own devices the Bear is very strong. If I reach a point that IB is not effective I’ll speak up but so far it was very easy for me to break into M4 with next to no gear… I have gear but I’d assume it can be better

That’s why I said it was a fan game. It works now. I went through DLS completely with only IB and corrosion railguns, it works well. But when it comes to farming, when time is important to you because you repeat the same thing over and over again, that fun goes away and more efficient builds are required. And there is still raid, where 80k armor can be killed in seconds and you will be left with a long cd, although now this problem is not difficult to solve. But you are still not effective as a tank, for distracting mobs for the team, and as a DPS, because moze in the dps build does it better.


Someone veteran please test the V35 grenades on speed load with Vampyr. It carried me into M3. Bear can leech 80k in seconds

Can you solo Slaughter Shaft and/or the Takedown on M4 with the build? To me this is the measuring stick whether a build is truly strong or not. Not every build has to be that strong, but if there is no purely Iron Bear build that can do it then I have to say Iron Bear is still lacking because plenty of pure Moze builds, can.


IB is pretty strong in my current build. Chunks M4 badass mobs. I use the cooldown in the m4 Takedown to take out badass for fun. I can kill M4 Graveward on one cooldown with blast Master com and rocket pods. The only problem is Moze can still do it faster.

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I survived Antagonizer 9000 on M4 today

Bear isn’t as weak as I was lead to believe would be my point

That doesn’t answer my question at all. Agonizer 9000 is a basic boss farm. I can kill him in one Magazine of a Cutsman with my Zane build on M4 as a comparison.

It’s not “weak” no. It’s still not on par with Moze. But nobody is saying IB is weak anymore, maybe you are going from old information. As we’ve pointed out there were some recent very significant buffs.


The only good piece of gear I have is the mod… Lemm gear up and I’ll get back to you. I’d need to hit a difficulty wall to respect entirely out, it hasn’t come yet

So far Bear can melt TVHM M3 with my whole basis being soley triggering splash as Moze and bringing Bear back as fast as possible

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I understand that Iron Bear builds can excel on M3 and even clear content on M4 but that wasn’t the question of this topic, nor was the implication that Iron Bear is weak.

The question of this topic was whether Moze was much stronger outside Iron Bear then in it, and the answer is still, yes.


Well I wanna see it for myself. To say Moze can do it better outside of the mech but that the only place this becomes apparent is the Slaughters and Trials of TVHM M4 doesn’t convince outright. If Bear can leech his entire HP bar in 2 volleys surely that survivability mechanic can be tweaked into the final 2% of the game, the farming

Like I said not every build has to be able to do SS M4 or solo the Raid on M4 but what it proves at the moment is that Moze is still stronger using IB only for Auto Bear then she is when focusing on using Iron Bear. Which what the topic was asking which is why I brought it up.


The 80k armour+40k added shields in combo with the Bear’s ability to jump boost strafe around the map while Vampyr triggers on 30 grenades per ~3sec

This isn’t viable at the top echelon? I’m nearly there so I’ll see within a few hours

I wanna know who ran V35’s+Lock and Speed Load while using the point allocation pics I posted above… This is the strongest Bear I could muster with no gear even remotely adding to the playstyle… Bears fire rate in combo with vamp, increased damage, increased longevity with a rapid CD dependent splash damage delt by Moze.

The point allocation I choose achieved M3 with no special gear other than a mod, guns that could sap health, armour, shields and a gun to proc splash with high fire rate.