Why "nerfs" are required and how it would affect Amara

This is something they explicitly said they didn’t want to repeat, and something they are ironically and inevitably going to repeat on this route.

It is what made BL2 not fun for most people at endgame.


what blows my mind gimmick is that they even at utter incompetence levels of understanding high end game play still should know why and how amara phasezerker was broken exactly and they did not address it.


I believe it is more so that GBX doesn’t test anything and the Amara mains don’t care and are actively staying quiet to avoid fixes.

Literally anyone who has taken a math/statistics class knows you DON’T form assumptions or in the case of video games, make balance changes BASED ON OUTLIERS.

Very basic knowledge about statistics and reading data.


my Main for BL2 was Maya and, as a solo player, was fine that she had her issues in certain boss areas (skip the optional ones or cheese those I couldn’t.) I certainly didn’t want GB to squash the Sal players fun to make it more “fair.”


I did and I played zer0 for 700 hours.

It did not feel good. A lot of things about BL2 did not feel good. The end game was extremely narrow and inaccessible and not in any clever or nuanced way that catered towards hardcore players, it was just broken.

Amara is a clear outlier. At this point I’m becoming a broken record, there’s no more proofs I can provide to anyone to change my argument any. I also haven’t seen many counter arguments that didn’t boil down to “don’t touch my fun punch girl.”


Okay, go ahead and destroy those things. She is still top dog by miles.

Nerfing should be about single outliers. Amara has a hundred outliers and thus it would be easier to buff the others.


How is it easier to buff 3 people to Amara’s:

Then just closing those hundred outliers? Why would it make sense to do 3 times the work or 100^3 the work depending on how it is counted?

This is more evidence to me that there are aspects of that character that are fundamentally broken. I do not see how breaking the rest of the game is less work or a better solution for the staff or the playerbase.


Why would you need 100x3 buffs? Roll back the Salvation and Tesla nerfs and Zane and Moze are back on par, roll back the Mist damage and duration nerf (or even buff it up to 10 or 12) and Fl4k is on par.

The devs created this situation!!!


The devs did create this situation, but you are also under the assumption that Moze having better sustain and Fl4k a bit more crit damage would make them suddenly capable of what Amara is currently.

Should they roll back those nerfs to avoid hypocrisy in light of their apathy towards balancing? Sure.

Will that magically make Moze and Fl4k to the level of Amara? No. Of course this speaks nothing to Zane either.


I think I have warmed to the idea that extreme outliers are not good for promoting diverse builds or interesting gameplay…

I take longer to down some hardened tinks than that Amara takedown solo - and I put some serious work into getting my build better and gameplay better…

Like in all most threads, there is always so many different conversations happening at the same time. And people feel that that want to contribute, but often it goes off topic so easily…

I am so guilty of that!

The average casual gamer clearly fears a change that might mean after watching his/her favourite channel he won’t be able to search for specific gear that could make him feel OP at the higest levels.

This is something that needs to be addressed - and if it does perhaps there will be less resistance around balancing…

Sadly because of game glitches, poor balancing, and bugs, etc. Many people don’t get to reach their performance ceiling - which is where they could start to improve and get more out of the game mechanics.

Not everyone wants to play to get better though, and it’s these sort of glitches that have created a culture of something like binge box-set gameplay… Where people just want to get rewarded for their time vs their skill. A huge part of the customer base in fact…

God-roll modes are still achievable by decimating lower Mayhem… But human psychology always gets in the way of that solution…

But it’s true that this feeling just doesn’t trump the need to get the mechanics fairer for everyone for the long run, and to give people the most options…

So you have convinced me at least anyway…


To be clear you are now claiming that literally unkillable infi-nade spam Zane and Moze is not strong!?!

Way to make your agenda and bias clear, we are done here - go back to Destiny.

Have you tried them on Mayhem 4?

Also nice snark bud.


I wouldn’t say Amara has a hundred outliers. I think its okay to be overpowered, and have really strong builds that can wreck ■■■■ at endgame. Having something strong, like TTB, Phasezerker (even without glitching Do Harm), Sustainment, Personal Space, Unleash the Dragon etc isn’t an outlier - they are just really strong builds and synergies. I think narrow-mindedly nerfing these things because they are ‘strong’ would be incredibly unhealthy to the endgame.

But something like the Driver COM with its +500% multiplicative damage, or the Phaseslam/cast anointments are a different story. These things are clearly overtuned and not in line with the balance of the end of the game. Buffing the other classes to reach that level would entail giving them COMs and anointments with equivalent bonuses, which would cause the balance of the game to spiral out of control. These are the few outliers that need to be balanced. Everything else that makes Amara great? Just leave it be. Even if Amara still outperforms the other classes, I don’t really see an issue with that - someone has to be the top dog after all - it just shouldn’t be by a ridiculous or effortless degree.

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If you think Amara is broken then don’t play her. Or don’t use a build that you think is broken. Why does it matter that a minority of the Amara players can melt Wotan? Your petty jealousy is going to affect the majority of players who are just playing for fun. But you don’t care about them, do you?

You are totally right,man, but I have an argument that I think is bigger than yours. Want to here it? Okay here it is…WHO. CARES. I mean seriously man, who cares. Why are we debating what balance is, or what outliers are and should things be buffed around them blah blah blah.

I simply just dont care what other people are doing in the game. I really, really dont. I switch off between all vault hunters. I play amara and havent even switched to the new mod even though i have one. Will I switch, yes, maybe tonight I’ll have an op session and enjoy myself a little. However, I’ll still play the other vault hunters.

I just wish people cared more about politics-you know, the governing rules of our lives- more than they cared about balance in a pve game :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Everyone needs bug fixes before being balanced. We’ve no clue how powerful everyone actually is with crap like terror infinite projectiles, Stainless Steel Bear not buffing IB damage, etc.

Fix all of that, then look at nerfs. But yes, Amara is probably over tuned. Her aqnnointeds specifically are a bit much compared to everyone else’s and that new COM breaking Mindfulness is probably an issue. Other than that though, she’s just a really solidly designed VH. The only one that comes close to being as reliable is Moze and that’s only due to the massive Iron Bear buffs (which makes IB viable, even on M4 Maliwan Takedown).


Great minds, I just made a thread about that seconds ago!

We still have no idea what would be strong if it worked.

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I can almost guarantee Iron Bear is a bit too strong right now but for such a long cooldown, it better be a little too strong. Or rather, it’s different weapon types need more love because right now, you either go explosive chain gun, rocket launcher with no behavior augment or you go fast reload grenade launcher. All other options are bad for end game content. Hilariously bad.

So that might create the illusion of the Iron Bear being too strong since it’s build diversity is non-existent.

They do not care about anyone besides themselves with responses like this, so why should I care about you in return? “Just don’t play it” is not good feedback for the health of the game. What a low-effort response.


Do harm should increase the linked damage since it is AS damage. Phasezerker coms need to be adjusted to not allow for more than the maximum of rush stacks to be applied to Do Harm. Its the Phasezerker com bug that brings this up to stupid levels

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