Why "nerfs" are required and how it would affect Amara

Amara was a sleeper VH from the get-go as most went to Zane and Fl4k. Obivously she’s stronger now, but her overall design (aside from the new COM) is far more compelling with better synergies than most expected and her performance has reflected that.

However, with the right player I’ve seen some of the hardcore guys do some crazy stuff across the VHs – not that they couldn’t use some help, but most of the initial groundwork has been laid for a really awesome crop of characters. I only hope a “balancing pass” is just that, and not a Blizzard style decapitation for Amara alone without some real love for the others. Time will tell.

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It won’t be enough. Each new difficulty is like a test that makes all inferior builds fail. The higher the difficuly, the more builds fail to perform. At some poins, there is only one build that can cut it. The problem with the current state of the game is that that in certain areas M4 makes 3 vault hunters fail to perform outside glitches or Tediore explloits.

The only question I have related to this is, is it an achievable goal?

Can different skills get an equivalent balance at end game without massive disruption to so many people along the way?

If people want different types of skills to mix up the game more - does that always lead to a problem in end game balancing?

I mean the same issues were in BL2. Limited builds at highest difficulty.

I don’t have any fixed views on this yet as I’m still forming a better understanding of all the issues involved.

I offer these questions in the spirit of discussion and discovery…

Any comments appreciated.

You nerfers are 100+ deep on your list and I still see OP options available you haven’t mentioned.

Nerf one vs buff three

The solution is temperence in how much “difficulty” a developer puts in a game. At some point you have to say “enough is enough” even though ten players will keep complaitning that the game is “too easy.” The remaining million will not. Whatever the difficulty is, it should not exclude whole characters from negotiating the content. This is a (critical) design failure.

To put it in other words, a game feels rewarding when the players accomplish something, such as beating a tough challenge. However, it is essential that you provide BOTH the challenge AND the tools to overcome it.

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But the skill for ttb clearly states that ANY damage dealt to a linked target is shared. It’s also only 35% of the damage so not all of it either. The skill is working as intended. If it was a bug the skill would not clearly say “ANY damage dealt” phasegrasp itself also usually does minimal damage too and doesn’t do hardly anything on its own without shooting etc. so that would then make this skill pointless and pretty much suck.


The problem IMO is the driver class mod, and to some extend, people getting mad how Amara handle the new Raid/wotan.

Driver needs some balance.

As someone who read all of the Amara-nerf threads and thorougly agrees with most premises of them the main issues are:

1.) Phasegrasp is broken and activating mindfulness / anoints by missing your action skill and keeping 100% uptime is blatantly ridiculous.
2.) Spiritual Driver isn’t just broken, it’s also insulting
3.) “Buff not nerf” is an awful argument but one of the only ones most Amaras have. It has been explained several times in several ways that the outcome of this is extreme power creep because of how much of an outlier Amara is at the moment.


I’m a longtime BL player (1000’s of hours on P3, P4 & Steam) and I don’t remember GB tinkering with any of the VH mechanics on BL1, BL2 or TPS because of “balance fairness” or whatever. For example, Sal is a beast and was made beastlier with a Grog. To this day, Sal is still OP. I don’t know why GB isn’t focusing on the real bugs (CoOp, bank & backpack issues, XBox crashes, the teensy type) instead of focusing on nerfing VH skills.


yes they did not and it was not great, game had permanent issues and people just made best of it. that dos not meant it was best course of action from gearbox, one should be blind to reality to assume that you can make a game like borderlands 3 and get everything remotely right. We for one should be happy that they are actively trying to fix stuff, and no matter how many things they break in the long run we get a better game than bl2.


This is something they explicitly said they didn’t want to repeat, and something they are ironically and inevitably going to repeat on this route.

It is what made BL2 not fun for most people at endgame.


what blows my mind gimmick is that they even at utter incompetence levels of understanding high end game play still should know why and how amara phasezerker was broken exactly and they did not address it.


I believe it is more so that GBX doesn’t test anything and the Amara mains don’t care and are actively staying quiet to avoid fixes.

Literally anyone who has taken a math/statistics class knows you DON’T form assumptions or in the case of video games, make balance changes BASED ON OUTLIERS.

Very basic knowledge about statistics and reading data.


my Main for BL2 was Maya and, as a solo player, was fine that she had her issues in certain boss areas (skip the optional ones or cheese those I couldn’t.) I certainly didn’t want GB to squash the Sal players fun to make it more “fair.”


I did and I played zer0 for 700 hours.

It did not feel good. A lot of things about BL2 did not feel good. The end game was extremely narrow and inaccessible and not in any clever or nuanced way that catered towards hardcore players, it was just broken.

Amara is a clear outlier. At this point I’m becoming a broken record, there’s no more proofs I can provide to anyone to change my argument any. I also haven’t seen many counter arguments that didn’t boil down to “don’t touch my fun punch girl.”


Okay, go ahead and destroy those things. She is still top dog by miles.

Nerfing should be about single outliers. Amara has a hundred outliers and thus it would be easier to buff the others.


How is it easier to buff 3 people to Amara’s:

Then just closing those hundred outliers? Why would it make sense to do 3 times the work or 100^3 the work depending on how it is counted?

This is more evidence to me that there are aspects of that character that are fundamentally broken. I do not see how breaking the rest of the game is less work or a better solution for the staff or the playerbase.


Why would you need 100x3 buffs? Roll back the Salvation and Tesla nerfs and Zane and Moze are back on par, roll back the Mist damage and duration nerf (or even buff it up to 10 or 12) and Fl4k is on par.

The devs created this situation!!!


The devs did create this situation, but you are also under the assumption that Moze having better sustain and Fl4k a bit more crit damage would make them suddenly capable of what Amara is currently.

Should they roll back those nerfs to avoid hypocrisy in light of their apathy towards balancing? Sure.

Will that magically make Moze and Fl4k to the level of Amara? No. Of course this speaks nothing to Zane either.