Why "nerfs" are required and how it would affect Amara

I think I have warmed to the idea that extreme outliers are not good for promoting diverse builds or interesting gameplay…

I take longer to down some hardened tinks than that Amara takedown solo - and I put some serious work into getting my build better and gameplay better…

Like in all most threads, there is always so many different conversations happening at the same time. And people feel that that want to contribute, but often it goes off topic so easily…

I am so guilty of that!

The average casual gamer clearly fears a change that might mean after watching his/her favourite channel he won’t be able to search for specific gear that could make him feel OP at the higest levels.

This is something that needs to be addressed - and if it does perhaps there will be less resistance around balancing…

Sadly because of game glitches, poor balancing, and bugs, etc. Many people don’t get to reach their performance ceiling - which is where they could start to improve and get more out of the game mechanics.

Not everyone wants to play to get better though, and it’s these sort of glitches that have created a culture of something like binge box-set gameplay… Where people just want to get rewarded for their time vs their skill. A huge part of the customer base in fact…

God-roll modes are still achievable by decimating lower Mayhem… But human psychology always gets in the way of that solution…

But it’s true that this feeling just doesn’t trump the need to get the mechanics fairer for everyone for the long run, and to give people the most options…

So you have convinced me at least anyway…


To be clear you are now claiming that literally unkillable infi-nade spam Zane and Moze is not strong!?!

Way to make your agenda and bias clear, we are done here - go back to Destiny.

Have you tried them on Mayhem 4?

Also nice snark bud.


I wouldn’t say Amara has a hundred outliers. I think its okay to be overpowered, and have really strong builds that can wreck ■■■■ at endgame. Having something strong, like TTB, Phasezerker (even without glitching Do Harm), Sustainment, Personal Space, Unleash the Dragon etc isn’t an outlier - they are just really strong builds and synergies. I think narrow-mindedly nerfing these things because they are ‘strong’ would be incredibly unhealthy to the endgame.

But something like the Driver COM with its +500% multiplicative damage, or the Phaseslam/cast anointments are a different story. These things are clearly overtuned and not in line with the balance of the end of the game. Buffing the other classes to reach that level would entail giving them COMs and anointments with equivalent bonuses, which would cause the balance of the game to spiral out of control. These are the few outliers that need to be balanced. Everything else that makes Amara great? Just leave it be. Even if Amara still outperforms the other classes, I don’t really see an issue with that - someone has to be the top dog after all - it just shouldn’t be by a ridiculous or effortless degree.

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If you think Amara is broken then don’t play her. Or don’t use a build that you think is broken. Why does it matter that a minority of the Amara players can melt Wotan? Your petty jealousy is going to affect the majority of players who are just playing for fun. But you don’t care about them, do you?

You are totally right,man, but I have an argument that I think is bigger than yours. Want to here it? Okay here it is…WHO. CARES. I mean seriously man, who cares. Why are we debating what balance is, or what outliers are and should things be buffed around them blah blah blah.

I simply just dont care what other people are doing in the game. I really, really dont. I switch off between all vault hunters. I play amara and havent even switched to the new mod even though i have one. Will I switch, yes, maybe tonight I’ll have an op session and enjoy myself a little. However, I’ll still play the other vault hunters.

I just wish people cared more about politics-you know, the governing rules of our lives- more than they cared about balance in a pve game :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Everyone needs bug fixes before being balanced. We’ve no clue how powerful everyone actually is with crap like terror infinite projectiles, Stainless Steel Bear not buffing IB damage, etc.

Fix all of that, then look at nerfs. But yes, Amara is probably over tuned. Her aqnnointeds specifically are a bit much compared to everyone else’s and that new COM breaking Mindfulness is probably an issue. Other than that though, she’s just a really solidly designed VH. The only one that comes close to being as reliable is Moze and that’s only due to the massive Iron Bear buffs (which makes IB viable, even on M4 Maliwan Takedown).


Great minds, I just made a thread about that seconds ago!

We still have no idea what would be strong if it worked.

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I can almost guarantee Iron Bear is a bit too strong right now but for such a long cooldown, it better be a little too strong. Or rather, it’s different weapon types need more love because right now, you either go explosive chain gun, rocket launcher with no behavior augment or you go fast reload grenade launcher. All other options are bad for end game content. Hilariously bad.

So that might create the illusion of the Iron Bear being too strong since it’s build diversity is non-existent.

They do not care about anyone besides themselves with responses like this, so why should I care about you in return? “Just don’t play it” is not good feedback for the health of the game. What a low-effort response.


Do harm should increase the linked damage since it is AS damage. Phasezerker coms need to be adjusted to not allow for more than the maximum of rush stacks to be applied to Do Harm. Its the Phasezerker com bug that brings this up to stupid levels

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It also doesn’t help a lot of relics often have an effect that comes into play by slamming, sliding, or melee an enemy. That’s something you’d often see Amara do since brawling is her modus operandi; but not with the other three Vault thieves.

Maybe you should stop trying to ruin everything and let people have their fun.

To a level that is boring and lame as ■■■■ you mean. Not worth playing at that point.

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you realize that most people do not feel like you right? most people consider exploiting lame and unfun and most people who are using any kind of exploit or even stupid Op setup will be kicked out of the utter most hosts games. IF exploits are patched out and some 10 people quit the game nobody will care. in a long run a lot more people will play becuse character is well designed rather than br0k3n lul


agree , amara is like the standard of character design . almost every skill is useful and moze is like 50% of the skilltree being worthless

Have to agree on moze. Thats my main and her skill trees need work. Need something other than vampire for healing for a start.

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I think we need to worry about fixing bugs instead of nerfing vault hunters first. I kind of don’t believe Amara needs nerfed if you literally only fix the recursion + element bug (which any vault hunter can use to success btw especially rakk fl4k). And fakegrasp, which seems like an unintended oversight, but honestly I don’t really feel negatively towards this.
Besides that Moze apparently needs fixed, I can’t give all reasons to this, but we know they are out there.

If this game wasn’t so buggy it would not look he way it is right now imo. Fix bugs, buff VH that need it, then lets talk about nerfs.


You’re absolutely wrong. Lol like really? You’re in the minority. Most who play the game couldn’t care less about things like that. It’s just a vocal minority who posts in forums, as are their opposites like me who hate nerfs.

Also he is talking about more than fixing something like Fakegrasping, he wants stupid unnecessary nerfs as well.

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go to public lobbies and experience it yourself this is what was standard in bl2 and will be a standard in bl3

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The problem is that all her impressive skill is a kill skill