#41

I’m on 360.

I guess the crit dmage from the cryo buff woud be overkill with CM. I can’t recall the FR for a spliiter off the top of my head, although I from what I find on google, it’s between 3 and 3.5.

#42

Ok so 360 is important because you’re on a base 30 FPS console.

if the FR was 3.5 and your best base case FR would be +95% (From 4 Stacks of Incentives Believe and Lean on Me)

3.5*1.95 = 6.825

Your closest breakpoints are 30/4 and 30/5 (7.5 and 6, respectively), which mean that you’re gonna get rounded down to 6 on a Jakobs sponsorship.

Instead, we take the Vladof Sponsorship for 130% FR.

3.5*2.3 = 8.05

So from taking the Vladof Sponsorship we advance a breakpoint AND we get some wiggle room with Lean on Me (about 15%)

However, after consulting the Laser infographic the Combination of Splitter Barrel and Hyperion Body does not increase FR like with Maliwan and Tediore, so it’s probably 3.0 FR

Doing the Math again

Without Vladof: 5.85 (super bad we BARELY miss 6)

With Vladof: 6.9 (1 Breakpoint increase, with a 30% wiggle room).

In Either case Vladof Sponsor is preferred.

#43

Just Ran Eclipse with a Hybrid Projection (Basically Just a Standard Projection using Weapons that would work when not using a Projection com and some of the filler points used to climb Hero instead).

I wasn’t timing nor trying to get it done ASAP but I hit about 10 with it, sub 10 is def possible.

My gear was:
Corrosive Subdivided Splitter (Yeah It’s 3 FR Base)
Corrosive Win-Win T4s-R (Didn’t actually use this other than with the Vladof Pistol as a “Incentives Engine”
Rando Vladof Pistol (Sponsorship/Incentives Engine).
Shock Practicible Thinking
Eddie/AckAck
SoA
Quasar (Never Threw)

Only real mechanical stuff I pulled was periodically switching between the Vladof and Splitter/Thinking to maintain 4 stacks right about when it was about to run out, and cancelling Jacks at full or between phases to maintain BFF.

The Promotes were meh, as expected, it was all supercritting shotguns that did my damage.

As I said about ~10 minutes but could easily be brought down if you were speedrunning (Obviously better with Developments than Splitters/Thinkings, but just saying it is possible to get it done with more Hero friendly weapons).

#44

Awesome. I suspect you could get a sub 6 min run if speedrunning, like Wilhelm.

I’m really pumped to try this now. Once Eclipse and lvl 9 mutator Shadow-tp are taken care of, that should prove that hero builds can definitely be viable at the highest levels of the game.

Will defintely keep the Vladof sposorship in mind next time I go to Eclipse. Will report back when I kill him again (when I get some gear to do it with of course).

#45

I mean it’s not really a Hero Build, it’s a Projection build with the filler points put into some Hero Stuff.

#46

Oh. Alright then.

I have a pure hero specced Jack. I’ll see what he can do when I get some gear for him.

#47

I mean I used your exact build for Eclipse with a Projection COM. To call that a Hero build is a little much, because you’re basically using a Non-Hero Build but just getting the third capstone.

#48

Fair point.

I have a second Jack speeced http://thepresequel.com/Jack/55515005050515051005005151200000000000, similar to the build you posted above. It would take some planning, and a lot of hail+tediore reloads for Eclipse. EOS is the mystery here, I have no idea how to tackle that.

EDIT: Actually http://thepresequel.com/Jack/55512005050515251105005151200000000000/celdoppelganger,lv70
This would work better now that I think about it. Eclipse kills Jacks pretty quickly, so those skills could proc w/out me having to pop Jacks. And TTF wouldn’t be that great because the Jacks wouldn’t kill anything.

#49

Just asking, what is the range that your Digi-Jacks “die”? I thought about a build where you run along with your Digi-Jacks to benefit of the skills from Greater Good and Hero of this Story and make them do damage with you, not just grant you free kill skills.
Something like this as a base: http://thepresequel.com/Jack/50015010150515550010005101000000000000

#50

Just a brief tweak to your base (You can put On My Mark Back if you want but it doesn’t work with longbows) The problem is moreover associated to the jacks not doing sufficient damage (On their own, with nova shields they can actually do decent damage with Max Special Shields) to warrant the investment into the hero tree, rather then them dying before they get their damage off. This is most noticeable in boss battles specifically where you’ll find yourself carrying your jacks weight, which is harder to do with less point investment in the “make you better” skills.

#51

Even the Badasses dont hold their ground while mobing?

#52

Well anything can mob, mobbing is trivial.

#53

At post 29 and 34 I listed the Times for some of the more annoying bosses in the game. With the exception of Shadow_to, Eclipse, and EOS, the Jacks handled everything very easily, and this was with a suboptimal build and gear. With the exception exception of those 3, they can handle any content in a the game (and even with those 3, the fights aren’t impossible. They take a bit longer, but the aggro is off you the whole time.) My eclipse portion took 4 minutes, and eos 15, mainly because of scrappy gear that fight.

Long story short, they handle 99 % of the game content just fine. And that last 1% just requires some patience and gear.

If your interested, just try them out for yourself. Don’t let either of us convince you of something before you’ve tried it. It’s a different playstyle, and takes a slightly different approach, but I find it still works magnificently.

BTW, I haven’t played for a while, but I believe the range was about from the entrance of cluster overlook to in between the first and second huts inside.

#54

I see the Digi-Jacks like Deathtrap, and Im a Gaige player. To be honest, they give you a lot more in boss scenarios granting you free kill skills AND agro.
I think Im going to buy the Doppelganger pack and see it in Action.

#55

Well I mean if you treat them as a sac of kill skills while doing marginal dps you’ll have a lot more fun out of it.

#56

If they could handle things while mobbing and give me something when Im bossing it should work. I guess…
Because with Make it Sparkle or Sharing is Caring Deathtrap can do a lot in the battlefield. Can the Jacks do the same with the Badass capstone and the shield skill?

#57

They’re never gonna be better than your output, but they can make your time easier. However the only offensive shields that work iirc are the Novas and Spikes, and they’re not too bad just not as devastating as a terra Deathtrap.

#58

Black hole Jacks are pretty amazing…Also cryo Nova Jacks. But that is more about the nova shield than the Jacks them selves

I would also compare them to turrets more than deathtrap

#59

I see. I got one more question: is that skill that turns their laser into a shotgun good? I dont remember the name right now but I think you know what skill Im talking about

#60

Some say it helps, I don’t notice it much. I guess it is a bit better but not a huge deal.