Why quitters can't be replace by new joiners that get team average skill tree

Can dev find a solution for player waiting in matchmaking to join a game where a quitter just leave his teammate and he would get a team average skill point?
I think that it could be a good idea to improve the game
i hope someone will see that post

Many people have asked for similar adjustments in many topics here.
In my opinion theres a center piece of the game that makes this changes neigh impossible: The Highscore board.
As I see it the team score (K/D, minion kills, buildables, Objectives, ect…) can only function the way it does now.
skillpoints are the lesser obstacle here, imo.

The mid-game joining and/or switching of players would bring everything on the scoreboard out of order.

As I see it, the whole highscore/scoring/rating would need to be reworked completely to allow players to join midgame.
And this would eat up a lot of time, money and resources.
I´m not sure if such a rather small feature is worth it to do a huge investment & rework-project.

3 Likes

I’d love a way to deal with leavers more than anything right now. But there are a crapload of things they plan on implementing, and they have a very small team working on BB at the moment. Give them some time.

My idea? Give us rewards for staying in consecutive games. Like 20 games gets you a rare or epic loot pack then it resets (you will keep your current streak if you log off, and pick it back up when you log back in)

5 Likes

A. Huge rework of the system in place. They could do it, but it would take a lot of resources.
B. Progression is an important part of the game. You’re taking out one of the fundamentals of the experience.
That’s a paraphrasing of Jythris reasons for not allowing drop in.
Additionally, what if I take a helix to counter someone else’s helix? That may be rare, but it could still happen (if someone takes “Oh That Reminds Me,” I might take “Hexsanguination” to counter).
How does gear work? Do you get refunded? Do you get the previous persons shards or the average? Is it the average right now, or the average obtained subtracted by the average spent (could be a problem if for some reason everyone splurged and then you pop in with no shards)?
There are a lot of problems that go against this.
Now the largest part is:

This game may not have the meta of a MOBA, but it’s mechanics and rules are similar.

No other MOBA allows drop in.

Why and how would Battleborn possibly go about this considering that the games most similar haven’t done it and have many reasons not to?

That about sums it up

2 Likes

The most similar moba game allow to join in progress. They give player average of obtained shards and level of other players on your team (or the lowest of the players, dont remember exactly). There shouldnt be a problem with gear, only with helix if you wanted to counter some other player and maybe in fact that previous player could spend some shards on buildables, but still, I say it is better that playing with less players.

And no, it would not take a lot of resources.

May I ask how you come to this assumption?

Here is how I came to my assumtion that it is an expensive process:
Approximately 250-300 people were involved in creating Battleborn as it is now, from artists to testers.
Lets say, maybe 35 people are needed too rework the PvP at its basics (as many things need to get reworked and completely rebalanced for midgame joining).

These 35 people will take time to do the job, including a full testing phase. Lets give them 4 months. (4 months in normal workingdays.)

I don´t have any idea what GBX is paying their Devs, but I´d think to pay 35 people 4 months long is quiet what I´d call quiet a sum of money aka resources.


I´m not in the business, so my numbers (35people & 4 months) are purely random. Its just an example how easily things can pile up, be it money, time or manpower.

And yes, many things can be easily added & fixed. But I highly doubt this is such a case.

3 Likes

What is the most similar MOBA game? Paladins? That is more similar to Overwatch now since they changed things.
And as Ganj said, it would take a ton of resources. Total restructuring of a complex system is nowhere close to easy. The coding alone is a nightmare, none the less UI changes and how to handle it

3 Likes

What MOBAs allows drop in and out Play? None of the major ones I know do that

2 Likes

Where are you getting your information from? Because it’s incorrect.

1 Like

Yeah it is, smite, league, vainglory, Dota don’t have that

I used to work with some developers and publishers. Changes to the scoring system you mentioned initially, I wouldnt be surprised if it could be done even within a day or two by one person. Everything else will take more people and time, but it isnt so much work with Unreal Engine to add it. However depending on the publisher (no idea about 2K) the testing may take even more time than the changes as many publishers will test everything on their own.

[quote=“epicender584, post:7, topic:1547769, full:true”]
What is the most similar MOBA game? Paladins?
[/quote]The most similar is Awesomenauts. Battleborn could be called a 3D version of Awesomenauts.

Oh Awesomenauts that game is great. It also seems built for drop in and out. Is there a drafting system in that game? Cuz there’ll be one in Battleborn soon. And Awesomenauts may be progression focused, but you can get any upgrade at pretty much any time, which changes a lot. Wow, now that I think about it, currency you pick up and get from minions, new upgrades you unlock over time, it seems extremely similar. Thank you, I would never have thought of that.

Heyo,

I completely get what you’re saying here. I would honestly prefer it they just did away with the entire scoreboard. This is a team game, not a k/d game. I’d be more than happy just seeing my own stats. Like golf, I play against my own high score while playing to win.

I’d MUCH rather play a game with 10 people and have no scores than have a lopsided game and see how badly my 3 or 4 person team is getting crushed.

Disclosure: I’m also a bit bitter right now. The last few days of playing, I’ve been on the 3 or 4 person team. I played maybe 20 games and 9 of those games did not end with me still having (or sometimes even starting) with a full team.

I love the game in general, but the afk’s and people that disconnect early to mid-match never to return are what’s really preventing me from enjoying the game lately. Knowing nobody will fill their slot is just so disheartening. You can only get crushed by the opposing team while being short manned and being taunted so many times before you just don’t even want to log in anymore. 5v5, crush and taunt me all you like. Fair game and gg. When the team is already shorthanded out of the gate and having a miserable time…come on.

I truly get all the reasons the system likely can’t be changed, the difficulties with helix, shards etc., and I get that the cost and return on investment just likely wouldn’t make sense, but a man can dream of a day when he can actually get through a few matches with a full team.

Sorry, I think that turned into a vent. That wasn’t the intention. Days of lopsided stompings when I just want to sit down and relax with a game or two after work has allowed the dark side to flow through me.

Edit: and honestly, I’d feel better if they were to just throw in a bot in place of the person that left. A bot is not ideal, but it’s better than 4v5. I know this brings up a whole new discussion/issue regarding lore/pvp/bots/private, but alas…

2 Likes

This has been suggested before, the main objection is the AI quality for the Bot, and that people fear that the Bot would just feed the other team XP.

So in effect you have a 5th, who isn’t realty working with the others, and is helping your enemies level.

I would like to see some changes, but this is not an easy issue to address

Agreed, it is not easy to address.

Possibly make bots worth less xp per kill to make up for poor AI?

I like that, simple yet maybe addresses some issues.

Also you could force them into specific roles with some simple intelligence, depending on character role.

Support - Focus on healing etc, but not sure how you would mitigate specific scenarios
-For example, the bot has a focus on heals, yet the ally is being swamped by 4/5 enemies
-Does it go in anyway and risk death/XP
-Does it stay nearby to try and heal without jumping in the fray completely
-Does it head off an find another ally to heal
-Does it harass the enemy maybe
-Does it head to the nearest concentration of allies
-Does it kill minions
-So on and so forth

I don’t understand this. What does the scoreboard have to do with someone joining in middle of a match? They join and get the average level of their team, and start with 0 kills/deaths/minion kills/score/shards.

I also don’t understand the argument about how joining mid-game would allow you to counter the enemy team. You don’t get to see the enemy team composition in the first place, so that wouldn’t change. Are you guys talking about helix options? You don’t ever get to see what helix options the enemy picks at all.

Imagine seeing something like this in the main menu:
-campaign
-multiplayer
-quick play
-incursion
Game in progress available
You know that message you get when you get disconnected and you can still join? That option can become available to others if that person has been gone for more than (insert number here) minutes. Choosing this option will take you to character select, where you will get to see the game mode you are about to join and pick a character. That’s it, you won’t be able to see your teammates or the enemy team. Yes, there should be team composition, but having a replacement is way better than having an empty slot in your team.

Another thing; I haven’t heard/seen anyone demand that this be implemented immediately. We are all mature enough to understand that these things take time. Not everything we suggest will be added to the game, but if we don’t suggest anything, we won’t make any progress either.

Adjustments to the UI, to properly display dropped/joined teammates could potentially be done.
But overall, it poses a problem with the Scoring itself. This mainly affects tiebreaking based on average player score.

Well, there’s some room for counter-picks, if you observe certain Helix effects on the enemy. (Like @epicender584 said.)
Overall, counter-picks are not an actual problem with joining a game in progress. Although this will change with the planned draft system.

Bottom line is, it would be much easier to replace a quitter with a bot, than to allow another player to join.
AI improvement for the Bots would be nice, but that’s a topic of its own.

1 Like

A lot of those changes could be made, but they should start with stopping bots from chasing enemies too far when they are on low health. Another thing is that bots get stuck in some places like stinger turret behind first sentry on monuments, and that will take less than 15 minutes of one person work for each such place.