Why swap buttons for similar actions on different characters?

First example that comes to mind are Oscar Mike and Whiskey Foxtrott … two obviously very similar characters … Nontheless someone thought it was a good idea to swap the grenade throw to a different button for one of them. (Mikes is on “E”, while Foxtrott throws his on “Q”) … I don´t have to explain why stuff like that is unnecessarily confusing and annoying, do i?

Other examples would be Miko throwing something (requires aim) on “E” and activating something secondarily on “Q” (same as Mike) … for Galilea on the other hand it´s the other way around :confused:

At least for all those characters that only have one skill that requires aiming, it should preferably always be the same button.

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Haha, I always mix up Mikes grenade launcher and stealth since I main WF :joy:

I’ve NEVER had this issue. I never even realized they were different buttons until now. I play them both, though.

Is there a single other example, though? I feel like this is literally the only example of this. Which isn’t a problem, but you make it sound like this is a common issue among many character duos.

Skill 1 being “passive/secondary” (requires no aim) and skill 2 being some kind of skillshot seems to be true for Mike, Miko, Shayne or Deande f.e. … yet it´s the other way around for Foxtrott, Mellka, Galilea, Montana or Benedict. (just going threw a few characters, there´s probably more examples)

Obviously only talking about character that only have one “skillshot”, some have ofc two that need to be aimed.
I don´t mean specifically character “duos” as there probably aren´t many … just characters with an aimed “skillshot” and a somewhat “passive” secondary … of which there are quite a few.

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I see what you’re saying, I don’t think it’s affected me much but I don’t play a large variety of characters so I’m usually mentally prepared for whoever I’ve chosen.

So we’re talking about that kind of AOE dot/control skills that are placed where you point.

Ambra, Marquis, Toby, WF - “Q”.
Miko, Orendi, Oscar Mike, Thorn - “E”.

Did I miss someone?

Would be nice to have a “Swap buttons” checkbox on each hero’s page in Command.

I would love such an option, yeah …
Obviously everybody has different preferences, so there is no right or wrong in this argument.
Swapping the controls probably switches helix choice too, so thats no option I guess?

Marquis is one of those with 2 aimed skills, so I didn´t mention him.
I didn´t think about classifying the different skills much … just differentiating between those that require aiming (shoot some kind of projectile with whatever effect to it) and those that are not affected by your aim.

I’m sure the issue we’re discussing isn’t a matter of preferences. More like it just wasn’t thought over well in development.

I actually agree, but I didn´t wanna sound too offensive …
Otherwise we might be flodded with “I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM SO SCREW YOU” posts :no_mouth:

Whiskey doesn’t have a secondary that skill that requires no aim. Both of his skills are aiming, while Oscar has one aiming and one self buff. The two aren’t swapped. Only the grenade is swapped.

The thing that messed me up was constantly clicking r2 with Oscar thinking my gun was burst fire.

One could argue that the scrap cannon requires less aiming than the sticky grenade as it is mostly a close range push away skill …

Either way we can agree that swapping the grenade throw button between two very similar characters is just an unnecessary and annyoing “oversight”? :neutral_face:

I was a bit confused about the burst fire too btw … even semi automatic weapons like Marquis or Benedict allow you to press the button and have maximum fire rate … only WF requires you to spam your fire button iirc …

Yes. Idk why I can’t hold down the burst, but I wouldn’t anyway because burst weapons need that level of control. I don’t always want the second burst to happen automatically.

No, I do not agree about the grenades. I’ve switched between the two many times and never even realized they were different buttons until this post.

And the Scrap Cannon is most definitely an aimable attack. There is no argument here. Close your eyes and use Scrap Cannon, then close your eyes and use Stealth Generator and you tell me which one needs to be aimed and which one does. Aim at the ground and then use both abilities and then come back here and try to use that argument. Hell, even Rath needs to aim his attacks.

Tell we which skill needs more aim … a sticky grenade that has a throwing ark or a shotgun spray right in the face of that meele in front of you …

And it still doesnt change the fact that the two grenade skills are almost identical and yet have their buttons switched, theres no argument HERE. :expressionless:

Also I find it hard to believe that someone who can´t handle switching between burst fire and full auto has no problem with the grenade button change between characters, but hey … whatever you say.

… plus this isn´t just about OM and WF here … i just used them as an example.
My proposal is that there should be more consistency for control layouts on characters with similar skills … nothing reprehensible, is it?

I don’t know how often you play Whiskey… but the Scrap Cannon is way harder to aim than the sticky.

First off, the sticky has a yellow arc showing you where it will go. All you have to do is aim at a foe and hope he doesn’t move. With some practice, it’s easy to figure out when your foe is about to stop moving for a few seconds. The Flak Cannon on the other hand is much harder to land. Second off, you can’t just say “oh it’s easy to land at close range and therefore it’s easier than the sticky.” The sticky is easy at close range, too. The sticky is super easy at close range it’s not even funny. The Flak Cannon is easier to hit in medium range than close, in my opinion. Because it spreads out quite nicely after a second. At close range, it is misleading, it does not fire quite at the crosshairs, it’s a little off center. If you fire at someone in point blank range, you aren’t going to miss, but you will hit very low. If you are aiming for the head you will get a chest shot.

I know you’re sitting there thinking I am bullshitting you, but I’m not. I’ve been playing Whiskey a lot. His Sticky bomb is much easier to use than his Scrap Cannon which, for some reason, is more difficult to use than you’d expect.

In addition to this, again, it never occurred to me that the grenades were on different buttons. If they fixed this prior to release, that’d be fine, if they fixed it now, I’d be annoyed. Fix Oscar, not Whiskey. I am not lying about the burst rifle either. When I was playing Oscar I was just pressing that button over and over and kept having to remind myself about my automatic RoF. My grenade, on the other hand, was never mistakenly used, though, I did JUST switch to Quick Fire Mode and I was missing with it a lot because of that.

Everybody is entitled to his or her opinion, so no … I don´t think you are bullshitting me.

Nontheless I think that consistency between characters button layouts should have been considered more than it apparently was … especially with two characters and their respective skills being so similar. If you were to argue with that proposal alone, I would have to assume that you argue for the sake of arguing … but you don´t sound like that type. :wink:

And I agree that it would be problematic to change the controls now, just as you said …
but a “swap skill slots” checkbox as maskerader suggested would be awesome though.

I had no problem switching between Marquis and Mike for the first days of playing them too. It was only the last few days I began confusing their “grenades”…

If I was doing their job, I’d have something like a generic list of abilities. Primary Attack, Secondary Attack, Offensive Ability, Defensive Ability, Ultimate Ability, Passive.

And I’d put all of the Offensive Abilities on one button and all of the Defensive abilities on another button.

With that logic, Whiskey’s grenade would match the other grenade, and his flak cannon would match the stealth generator.

I don’t know what logic the developers used, but I’m sure it wasn’t just blindly allocated to a button. I think that the swap skill slots idea is perfect. Diablo does this and it is extremely convenient. It would be useful for it to be more than simply r1 and l1 swapping, too. With Marquis it is rather annoying to use his ultimate while you are scoped, and switching it with r1 would be useful. However, I am most certainly the type to argue for the sake of arguing :stuck_out_tongue:

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More examples.

Dash forward is a usual skill for melee heroes (sometimes not only melee). While Boldur, Caldarius, Mellka, Montana, El Dragon have their dash on Q, Deande’s dash is on E.

Attikus and Phoebe have a jump/teleport on Q, but ISIC has it on E.

Devs, please, we need a “swap buttons” checkbox.