Will Borderlands 3 have a long life?

There are many articles about Mayhem, drop rates and end game activities. Scratch the last one. There is still a long road until we can really name it so.

Borderlands is a looter shooter although currently we can call it shooter and some looter. I mean in hundreds of runs to get that dedicated loot you get same items over and over and no dedicated what so ever, So yeh, it’s an issue. I donno how comes that in any farm I tried, when a legendary weapon drops there is 80% chance to be the same one again (like ASMO, Woodblocker, Bouncing Pair, etc). There are something like 6-8 legendary that inevitable dropped and no one wants it or use it.

Yesterday I farmed 69 times Kilovolt hoping for a transformer with an anointment. Then I stopped, frustrated more than a bit. I used perfect loaded dice just because I can (even though luck attributes in the game it’s a waste), and in M4 because I’m a masochist. I got 11 ASMO, 1 crossroad, 6 artefacts, 8 Woodblockers, 3 bouncing pair, 1 widowmaker, 1 layuda from chest (anointed, not bad, although the anointment is with reload speed but is ~900x2 with 24 mag), a triple A a couple of times and… wait for it… one transformer, not anointed (what do you expect?). I had a strike of 5 consecutive runs w/o a single legendary dropped. So… I stopped.

And here I am, trying to figure it out if I do come back. And if I do, when it will be this happened. The Malliwan scaling … I will give it a try. It’s a pain sometimes to solo now. Plus I need an arc redistributor. And I don’t mind some good anointments. And hopefully the number of drops will be as much as now, plus an increase of the dedicated loot drop rates. But pretty much this is it.

Mayhem

Although version 2.0 was announce a while back, we have no information of the direction they take with it. I hope they know what they are doing and we will not get something that will be disappointment. Currently M4 si 80% of the time more doable than some of M3 combos which are so bad that overpass the reduced health, shield and armor. The drop rates are better in regards of the number. Quality of the drops, is as bad as ever, although in M4 marginally we can see more anointed.

The main issue here is that from the beginning difficulty was not thought through. Now we have Normal – TVHM and M1-M4 combined with the two. First developing issue is TVHM which is just a name that brings no benefits. There are so many players that tested the drop rates between the two and there is no benefit running TVHM. But about this a bit later.

Each level of difficulty should bring additional challenges AND rewards. Drop rates should not be altered by any item, Instead should be an inherit benefit of running that difficulty. Let the players focus on the builds without compromising it for the sale of a luck attribute that have no impact in item quality, anointment change or specific/dedicated loot chance. And therefore you only get more items that no one uses anyway.

Although foes health, shield and armor increase is kind of obvious, for me this is also an artificial and brainless method to make the content feel more difficult. Increasing TTK from 3s to 6s this way, it mainly means that I need more amo. Like now with the raid in solo. Many times I found myself running out of amo. Is the only activity where this happens though. Nevertheless, this increase should happen but a bit less.

Instead, bring environment effects that affect both foes and player (high gravity, wet environment that increase electricity efficiency, low gravity, earthquakes that messes targeting, even tilting field in proving grounds, etc.) Make the foes more aggressive and agile (but not as much as they dodge a rocked at pointblank range). Double their shield and decrease their armor and vice-versa. Randomize more the groups combination. Add special troops that can heal and revive (unless the foe exploded or something). Add them light resistance to elemental, or to non-elemental. And so on.

TVHM

There is no incentive to do it. There are no specific drops that are unlocked in TVHM, there are better rewards from the story (e.g. final chest at story end to guarantee anointed random different items as I got 2 identical Tina’s grenade with Zane). In a previous post I said that each reward of every quest should have been upgraded (green to blue, blue to epic, epic to legendary, legendary to different legendary or the same but anointed). TVHM should provide 4-5 additional quests (even additional main story branching quests) only available in TVHM. And the foes min level should be 40 if not 45, and then to scale with the player’s level.

Having this, doing TVHM will not be a rush after power leveling, but actually something that each player wants to go through at least once to see the story and enjoy the quests.

Proving Grounds

Are far from being an end game activity. Are too linear and the rewards don’t worth the effort. Now they even added to their end boss dedicated loot which is wrong in many levels. The challenges are bizarre and blunt and don’t scale with the difficulty played. There is no incentive to do it over and over again. After a few runs you know exactly which foe is coming from where. Simply put, doing it once there is nothing more to prove in the proving grounds. Unless artificially you add a piece of gear to one of the end bosses, and then you put such a low drop rate that we better find another way with the builds.

How about adding less challenges for proving grounds but when met, there is a guaranteed reward of a dedicated loot. Update these every week or so. Simply put, make the proving ground worth and fun for doing it over and over again.

Drop Rates

There are, in my humble view, a few issues starting with concept itself. The drop list itself should have been incrementally increased with each level of difficulty. Normal, TVHM, M1, M2, M3 and M4. While in TVHM M4 you have chances for each of the item in the game. If, by any weird decision, luck is a part of games attributes, then this shall impact as well the quantity of the drops as the quality of these. By Quality I also understand maybe additional perks that can be rolled (e.g. Maggy can get one bonus attribute chance with each mayhem level, even if each mayhem level increases only the chance to get that perk if not additional ones) This will give even more reasons to do higher difficulty in addition to the loot that can drop only in that level of difficulty.

Having first “looter” in “looter shooter” is a reason for it. Is the purpose of coming back and farm. Making this activity fun is a challenge, it’s true, but this ensures a constant number of player, a healthy community. And when that is achieved, then you can go wild with a lot of coop activities as there will be easy to properly match the teams. One of the main reasons the raid is a fail is not because the content is that bad, but because there is no one to match with and, when there is, the connection is so bad that the game is unplayable. Then a lot try to beat it solo. Sometimes it works but not for most, and so the frustration as some of the amazing items are locked under this activity.

On top of this the anointments.

I thing there should be no more that two RNGs active at any time. If is RNG for Rare Spawn, then you can add only one more. Either RNG to have the specific drop but when it does drop is anointed in THVM M4 either that drop chance is increased like 90-95% if not 100%% but RNG to get an anointment. In my previous post I think I counted for rare spawn loot something like 4 or 5 RNGs that are active in the same time. The only RNG that can run with this base two, is the one that rolls the additional perks to the item, but this should be a high number, meaning less chances to not to get it in the highest level of difficulty. But this is not implemented.

How about in M3 you can get anointment with 50% elemental damage on skill end but on M4 there is a 3% chance this to roll with 60%? This is also a thing that could be part of this incremental bonuses. In Diablo, to make us chase more loot, they even added something like 1% (if not lower)chance to get the Ancient prefix that guaranties perfect rolls for that item. Anyway…

End Game

Farming represents a big part of Borderlands universe, which is fain. However, as soon as you got that item that you farm it in the past two days to be with best roll and anointment and right element sometimes, you want to test it in the end game activities. Now end game is the raid which, if properly scaled as difficulty as of Jan 16, it will become more approachable. Why this is an “event” in the first place, and not a standard setup is a totally other topic.

I think is since Multiplayer and Coop games become a thing, the end game become a hot topic! In single player you beat the game, maybe chase some trophies, and you’ve done with it. It was stated from start that this is the game’s life span. In MMO when you pay an annual pass, you expect it to keep you hooked. No one said “Look guys, I know you waited the game a long time and we will launch it for you. However, please note that is half baked. So, please pay an Annual Pass. With this we ensure we fix all the bugs that you will find as we had no time or resources to find it before launch. And if we have time, we will add a few new things sometimes. So, what you say, should we launch it?”

This is not an issue only with Borderlands but with MMPO games in general. Let’s be honest here. Destiny, Anthem, Destiny 2, Division, Division 2, Call of Duty, and so on, all started at least half baked. It’s a long list. However, some managed to come back on their feet and bring something that kept the community stay with them. And guess what? End Game and things that worth their time to chase it, and the chase is fun, is what kept them around.

Proving Ground can be if there is any dynamism in it and something more to chase than the dedicated loot. How about a weekly challenge that guarantee a proving ground specific gear if you do 3 selected proving grounds one after each other (add a portal at the end of the first two) in min 15 min or something (adapted time by difficulty level. I mean… the anointed are most of the time a bullets sponge). Surely each ground comes with its own modifiers. The guaranteed item still follows the RNG rules of perks and anointments though. Add a monthly quest that if the bonus is achieved for 4 consecutive weeks, on last week you get a bonus item guaranteed when conditions are met.

Closing words

There are so many videos and articles about what’s wrong with Borderlands. Unfortunately they start to be more than the ones that praise it. I still believe that the game is not a lost cause. I know they are working to turn around the table and keep the game alive. I mean, if Borderlands 2 has more players than Borderlands 3 is not a sign, I donno what is. Someone wrote that is a game “with a 2005 concept released in 2019” and I admit that sometimes I have that feeling too. The current content and state of the game will be unable to maintain the player base. This also mean no more Year 2 Annual Pass.

Besides, I would love to see a proper roadmap, even though I understand why they don’t do it even if internally this must exist. Before sharing a roadmap to the already heated it up community, they need to be confident that there is something that is not only achievable but is also something that resonates with the community and make it stick around.

They said that they will add new tree, how many of you were saying “Yes, this is what we need now!”? OK. A few hours to unlock all skills, do a couple of builds which, by the way, you cannot save and you need each time to put the attributes in sanctuary, after we pay for no reason a fee. Then you test these builds in… wait… I already played every single thing so much with each character that I know it by heart! So, the boredom is installed before even we have the time to enjoy the euphoria of the new content. Like Jack. Very fun, finished in about 2h or so. 4 if really check each corner and do the side quests. Then, like a masochist like me, do it all over again with the other three characters. Then farm for a little bit. Less than a week later I was back to the same “what do I do now” status. The game remains the same week after week. The hot fixes are always good as it improves our life but it also separates more and more from offline players. I do believe that they needs to update the launcher as well after 2-3 hot fixes to keep the game up to date.

Thank you for reading and let’s for the best!

1 Like

You lost me on the first few lines, but I think I’m in the game for different reasons than many players - BL3 has been largely flawless for me so far, and expectations for it to only get better have not been unmet: looking forward to more!

6 Likes

This happens all the time with my Loaded Dice equipped (one w/12.67 Luck one w/o, no difference)… they’re locked up tight in my vault due to being hot garbage.

1 Like

BL3 has already lasted longer for me than many games. And I’ll continue to pick at it at least until all the DLC comes out.

I’ve never met an “endgame” that I really liked. Raid garbage is abhorrent. Farming is tolerable at best - when it’s rewarding and convenient. The quit/reload process in this game is too tedious for me to farm any given entity more than about three-five times, and it generally has discouraging results.

1 Like

The only serious thing wrong, are game stopping bugs.

I didn’t realize how important loot was until I came here. I’ve played TPS, BL2 and couldn’t tell you how many of what I have, and don’t care. I am definitely more shooter than looter.

I love the Proving Grounds. Best place to see if your combo of weapons/skills etc. are going to work. I find them fun.

Mayhem. I like the challenge of level 2. Level 3 is too time consuming, not harder. Haven’t tried 4, probably won’t because of above.

I’ve always played solo, and hope they keep it that way. Or at least make it optional, and in the background. I like the Destiny 2 did it. I see it, I can ignore it, or I can get involved. Didn’t stop me from enjoying it. To be fair I didn’t play it a lot. It was cheap, kicked the tires.

I’m probably not the typical gamer. I’m almost 60. I’m in no rush. I have to play slowly and thoughtfully to compensate for slower reflexes. This game is perfect for that. I can hang back with a sniper rifle before jumping into mob. I can spend skill points that work for me. I can suit up defensive or offensive. I can beat the end boss on MH 2, possibly 3, see above. I think it’s good that way. It should appeal to a wide audience.

Will it have a long life? Good question. I hope so. I only discovered BL last year when the Handsome Collection was a free download on PS+ It’s pretty much all I play now. Most 3, but I still tinker in TPS, want to do more BL2, but there’s only so much time in a day.

I just really wish they would get out the bug spray. The DLC was good and bug free, so they are capable of doing it.

1 Like

Thanks @sportster! I’m almost 50 so I got you! I’m not sure what builds you play but give it a try to M4. Even with the increase of health, shield and armor I find it easier than M3 most of the times.

I’m with you about the bugs. I farmed a bit the fabricator and two times the loot went outside the map. After a couple of hours of play inevitably the game crashes on PS4. So there is no day without at least one report submission from me!

I do enjoy the shooter part. No doubt. However for me now there is no sense of progress or achievement anymore. I can solo in M4 every single content in the game. Only the raid gives me a bit of challenge. And this with all 4 classes. All in TVHM so I did the story twice with all 4 and only 2 I rushed them in story. You know… after you’ve done it 4 times, there is nothing really to make do it “slow”.

In other words, a lot of players are in fine tuning mode. Now chasing the vest roll and the best gear. But how long one can do a brainlessly repeatable activity w/o any progress before stops?

It’s so tedious to test builds. I would love to save 3-4 and test it out and keep the ones I like and load each based on activity I’m doing. Surely if they must , they can lock the build load for end game activities when started. Anyway…

Thank for reading and your reply! Cheers and enjoy!

so in 70 attempts you ended up with 30 legendary’s, and one was the one you were looking for.

Drop rates are not broken.

3 Likes

1 in 70 for the dedicated drop is totally broken.

3 Likes

Dedicated drop rates are

2 Likes

We have at least 3 more DLCs and multiple smaller installments coming. So far, the precedent for those that we have to go off is comprised of Haunt, Maliwan Takedown, and Jackpot. IMO, that’s 3/3 damn good additions. Call me crazy, but I’m going to wait and see before I start worrying.

My early thought is that this game seems like it started out slower than BL2, but is headed to an even better end product.

1 Like

I had far worse than that in BL2

So far I’m enjoying the game a lot and I see a lot of potential in it for the long term. I may not be typical in that I don’t do Raids so the lack of them here doesn’t bother me. I do like the variety, especially in the weapons, and I’m finding that there’s plenty of difference between each VH to make that a different experience each time.

I also like the fact that drop rates are vastly improved and it’s rare for me to go a session without at least one Legendary to show for it (more end game than playthrough to be fair, where the drop rates so far have been lower). The DLC has been great so far and am looking forward to what’s next

I’ve already gotten tired of it. I would rather go back and play more BL2 than this game. Unless they release some spectacular DLC for it and fast, and fix all of the major bugs and complaints, then I won’t be coming back.

2 Likes

And why should it have a long life? It’s just another game for most people, and there are plenty of other great games out there that are a lot more fun than this. Nobody on my FR has played BL3 for months (apart from just a handful for the dlc) because of all the choice of better quality games about these days.

I am sure a few people will come back for dlc, some events and a bit of coop, but that’s about it. The tedious slog through the story, unskippable cutscenes and boring dialogue put paid to that for a lot of people. Talking of coop, until they sort out the abysmal lag on consoles, you can forget that as well :roll_eyes:

There is this concept too… Borderlands as a franchise is a serious outlier in my entire gaming history for games that I just can’t put down. Part of it is because they have an end game (where previous favorites really just ended with the conclusion of the story, so their ‘long lives’ just meant that I’d replay the storyline every couple years).

If someone goes through the story campaign once in Normal mode, has a blast, but puts the game down after that for a different game, I’d still consider this a pretty normal thing. That I have different expectations for Borderlands games is only because they have end games that work for me.

4 Likes

This game will die within a year

2 Likes

M4 Maliwan Takedown last night, only had time for 1 run and Motan dropped 2 anointed woodblockers - only legendaries. :frowning:

I like to believe Gearbox has some surprises for us this year. Plus if the quality of the last DLC is any indication, the future looks bright.

1 Like

with current annointed gun system i do not think so 2 years tops, but it is a game you play off and on if they removed damage based anointed stuff game could live much longer 5 years easy