Wonderlands will miss out on a huge audience

as far as one can tell right now regarding to footage and interviews, melee weapons as well as traditional bows aren’t more but small gimmicks in this game and your classic 4 weapon slots will still be reserved for guns only. now i understand, you might have a system and a plan and a balance and i wouldn’t work i am sure you made something up here long time ago and it’s probably too late to talk about it but i’m just telling you. apart from a few people like me who will take this as a challenge to create a melee only and a pure bow character, you are missing out on a huge audience here. there are tons of fantrasy arpg players, fantasy rpg player, mmorpg players who are constantly looking for new games to grind and build awesome characters in and you finally made that huge call that the franchise is going full fantasy and now you aren’t even able to create an actual melee character that doesn’t use guns? or at least a character that just uses fantasy weapon and not modern weapons at all? i understand it’s tina’s twist and i find it funny and cool for fantasy and fire weapons to exist in the same realm but not giving people the opportunity to actually create a full fantasy character that only fights with swords or bows is going to be a huge turn off for a lot of people. i have already told my favourite diablo streamers that this is going to be the next big thing. well if it turns out it’s not. bad luck. i wish it was.

I’d say this was something of a mistake, but that’s just me.

I can empathise with wanting a full fantasy-style character. I’m not sure I’d expect it from a Borderlands title (because the core gameplay, and everything around the franchise design, is about guns), though.

It’s an interesting idea though. How much could a Borderlands-style game attracted people who enjoy somewhat different games over some shared aspects? I’m sure just the aesthetics might be enough for some (considering there’s the loot grind already), but for others, probably not. Hard to tell how significant the crossover demographic would be.

yea but i mean that’s why this is an explicit spin off and not borderlands

Yeah, I dunno. I don’t know if I’d expect that amount of change from something that’s a spin-off. Maybe if it’s a success, and gets a follow-up around the next Borderlands game?

I mean, this is based on the BL3 engine. We all know the problems they’ve had in squashing issues in BL3 . . . I just wouldn’t expect fundamental changes for something that isn’t a main series release. Not without consequences, anyway.

Happy to be proven wrong, mind you.

It would be odd if the classes/characters didn’t include at least one Krieg/Zer0 style melee-gunplay hybrid option. I know some have played both those characters as mostly melee, at least for mobbing (or raids with other character assistance). It would be nice if pure melee and archer builds were a possibility (Battleborn, anyone?)

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Is this known?

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Its assumed that the bow shown in the trailer is an action skill and there are no other bows seen in the loot piles

And about melee someone stated that in an interview

I interpreted them as abilities, ala New World. Sword has an activate skill, hammer/great weapon has a spin 2 win, etc.
Bows maybe have a rain of arrows thing?
I don’t mind having these in addition to the guns, but I would like a gun slot being able to be taken by a sword or something.
Time will tell.

Bowzerker (2x) build, please.

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People don’t want to be beta testers no more.

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i would actually volunteer to actually beta test this game if in return GBX would listen xD

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Listening to feedback is a major point doing a beta test. But not in a “Listen to me and do …” sense - the decisions are made elsewhere. Probably for the better, or has there ever been a game (or other piece of software) build on democratic principles?

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Probably not democratic but I have recently witnessed devs reacting to frequent complaints actively influencing their creative visions like after a year of “get these bloody modifiers out of my face” they finally got them out of our face
Or a more interesting example after the announcement of diablo4 within hours the devs removed and changed certain aspects of itemization due to heavy shitstorms regarding these aspects xD

What I wanna say is that gbx isn’t good at balancing and often understanding what certain aspects or decision will cause for the player base in the long run

Maybe they should actually give it some QA
I mean they probably do…in the end everyone wants to have their subjective opinion respected and considered but when design decisions lead to hashtag behavior, something’s wrong with QA

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I think they do - only there are so many ways to test software and one type of test seems to be neglected by many game companies: The acceptance test. This is done for movies, soft drinks and whatnot, but seemingly not for games. Problem with software is that you need to have solid requirements to test against, not just an audience that gives you a like/dislike. It can be done, but it´s time consuming and expensive and thus unpopular. Also, what people want might be in stark contrast to what producers “envision” for “their” game. But that brings us into the “are games art or just entertainment” territory.
edit: Also, testing is certainly not the only QA approach, and should be embedded into a general quality concept.

Melee weapons as action skills could actually be exactly what Wonderlands needs. Krieg was such a blast to play, and i think Gearbox realizes just how big of a deal showing melee weapons in the trailer is. I don’t think they would have put so much emphasis if at least a couple of the skill trees weren’t for pure melee builds, but at the same time don’t get your hopes up, especially with people who’s opinions will matter to you like those streamers. It took BL3 a year to finally find some sort of “balance,” before that it was a mess of nerf/buff/nerf.

Would be nice if @GBX listened more proactively to their customers that got them where they are and not the few streamers they do listen/follow. I know I have said it before on this form but as much bashing as Outriders gets I do give PCF credit for being open and communicating with their customers and they are not the cut and paste answers we get here or elsewhere from @GBX.

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One of the characteristics that makes the original TTAODK DLC fun for me is the fact that it is supposed to be a fantasy game but you end up using guns because that is what the VH “players” are all used to and what Tina is familiar with. It comes across as one big long-running joke for me that just never gets stale. Then, when they add a few items that are more fantasy-esque, it becomes epic. Like “SWORDSPLOSION!” or the Magic Missile, Lightning Bolt and Fireball grenades. I love that stuff precisely because it is not traditional fantasy but an approximation using high-tech equipment. Full disclosure, I still play Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (what “newbies” would call 1st Edition) as well as plenty of FRPG computer games, so I am fully versed in the fantasy gaming genre, yet I still love TTAODK without the traditional RPG elements for character builds.

I do think something around arrows or bolts would be cool, like a repeating crossbow or something like that. And maybe a rocket launcher that shoots catapult stones or something that hurls hammers or something would also be fun. More ideas like that I think would be awesome to play with.

My biggest concern is that they make the character classes out to be more traditional and thus lose the whole appeal, again for me, of the idea that you are playing a space character pretending to run around in a fantasy world (as opposed to a fantasy character running around in a fantasy world).

I also wish you could import one of your VH’s from any of the other games as a character. That would be incredible.

Well but in the end its about money it’s always with companies and you can’t tell me they don’t want all the players
This game would have the potential to draw all the skyrim players all the diablo players people who even go as far as playing Minecraft dungeons just to get some of that fantasy looter experience and now wonderlands suddenly can’t provide it because it’s a “borderlands thing” to have mandatory gun usage?
Again this is not borderlands
It’s a spin off that has the freedom to do anything it wants and still has the power of reference and insider jokes
You could only win
But they decide to not

Hmm, perhaps the UI coder for slots 1-4 was fired or left the company rendering them forever “gun” slots.
:man_shrugging:

/s

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To me it sounds like there is just a melee button that preforms a melee attack with whatever melee weapon you have equipped and that you’ll be able to build around it. Kind of like psychostabber true melee amara build. Adding in the mix of melee action skills of the brrr-zerker.