yes i encountered that enemy. sadly us working people can not do much testing or farming done. but there are smart people out there with time on their hands and sooner or later we will know. perhaps this weekend i will test some stuff myself.

you are welcome but try building yourself, playing other people’s builds without understanding will not do anyone any good :slight_smile: have fun

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Yeah, I’m building a lot by myself. Actually have Artic (game changer for an Ice Build!) and have a LOT of fun with Zane, my main and my only character at this moment. I do no want OP character, I like the challenge and polishing the “math” with other players like you :slight_smile:

Looking past the obnoxious and arrogant way all of this is written, there are some good Points so kudos for that

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I feel as if Jacobs guns outclass every other manufacturer when I’m playing Zane. Is it the same for the other vault hunters.

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First things first, great analysis.

As a Zer0 main, I can surely relate to what you say about this kind of character being versatile and I can also see why it can be considered an Axton 2.0. It needs some tweeks here and there to be able to catch other class on damage, but he isn’t abysmal or barely unplayable by any means.

I’ve testing with some builds and I’ve reached some conclusions. First, Undercover and high-speed builds are not compatible. You can try, of course, but I think it’s better if you go for the Damage+Survavility instead of the Damage+Survavility+Speed, which results in a loss of traits you’ll want for Zane.

Secondly. I firmly believe that Doubled Agent skill tree is overrated. While Digi-Clone may outclass SNTNL due to its greater synergy with Synchronicity (alongside other skills that preffer the lower CD of Digi-Clone to shine), the Digi-Clone, by itself, isn’t any better. Synchronicity is one of Zane best skills and I think almost every build should want to attain it. It’s a flat 40% increase in damage that it’s also easy to maintain. Donnybrook is great too. 15% Gun Damage affected by DFC. Grenades are overrated as ■■■■. Not only do they lack in damage or even support (in the form of crowd control, etc.); they should be (at least with Zane) a nice add, but the build shouldn’t make itself around this. At this point, with DB glitched, I think Quick Breather (depending on your build, obviously not if you’re wearing RR) and Supersonic Man are the only two skills that shine in that tree.

I’ve been working on a build able to reach Confident Competence and Dome augment, while achieving all of Hitman fundamentals and DMG based Double Agent skills, and I’ve come up with this: https://borderlands.com/en-US/characters/zane/#t=“cb__3497412252___p__2886514866-5_2585585538-4_1105028631-1_4076945791-1_855159471-5_630140661-5_882593851-5_4221916440-1_4007997923-4_957917588-5_123113358-1_2942539557-5_3886810084-3_570334902-2_342715552-1___e__3441733518-1251885132_1590166781-4219377344_1434065960-2776360292_1831362103-3548678278_2424622424-1868013622_2477539908-97512464”

Now, here’s the thing. With a Class Mod like this

You’ll be getting +6 in Violent Violence and +8 in Playing Dirty (80% chance to add a secondary proyectile), which is fundamental to abuse low pellet count/high damage weapons, like Queen’s/King’s Call or the obscene Chump. While also being formidable with quick fire burst weapons (due to the points we’ve put into Cool Hand, a kill skill that should not be overlooked because we all know how lethal it was with pjs like Roland in the past) like The Butcher (in this game excels at close range, ripping shields in no time if you have a Shock version), Lucian’s Call, Artics, Crossroads, Lyudas, or whatever you’ll want to equip at a certain moment.

Even if it’s not an ice build, 2 points in Brain Freeze + the passive effects of the COM should be enough to instantly frozen a Badass. The point is, you don’t want to freeze everything unless you are playing the main Undercover version of the build, which focuses in double agent and undercover and infinite action skill time. You just want to kill things as fast as posible dealing tons of damage with your actions skills, + your dmg skills alocated in Double Agent, + the damage you are getting from the shield, AND be able to freeze Badasses in no time thanks to high fire rate weapons like the Artic Hawkin we’ve talked about before.

I’ve a version of the Otto Idol that gives me 18% health everytime I kill an enemy, and anso provides 105% slidding speed (in my opinion, NOT MANDATORY, but noticeable in a Zane build, for it allows you to evade non-hitscan bullets with ease, take cover if necessary (sometimes ppl forget Borderlands is a rare case of shooter with free movement and almost everything around you can act as cover) and relocate the Digi-Clon. 1.666 Max. Shield and 21% Action Skill recharge time.

Transformer > Stop-Gap. Stop-Gap makes you invulnerable when your life is below 50% and that’s nice. It also has a little bit more of capacity. But! 40% chance to absorb (aka ignore) bullets, will make the Transformer much more difficult to break through. I’ve not done the mat, but if one has, let’s say, 15.000 shield while the other “only” has 12.000, but this one ignores 40% of the proyectiles, his theoretical capacity is much higher. Anyways, Stop-Gap is another option you’d look to, I’m just sharing my impressions.

I haven’t dedicated much attention to Grenade Mods. Hex should be fine in Cryo or Rad version, the one that heals your shield is also nice, altho you’ve plenty of shield regen. Storm Front is another option. There are lots of them, but I sincerely believe they are the lowest point of Zane arsenal and, while considered, should not be your main preocupation.

I’ll share impressions as I play more with the build.

#ZaneGang.

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nope other classes are doing great with high dps high rof guns and then there is fla4k he does fine with whatever, he is this games nisha or gagie just shoot the ground and crits pop up. jacobs is really so far viable when you are in solo in team setings it is hard to single out and aim for heads.

fine content friend, i am currently running stop gap as i don’t have access to transformer, to chime in further higher capacity and invulnerability come in handy vs melee opponents and bosses while transformer excels against maliwan/cov. one thing i can say that shock hex mirv for mobbing is easily as good as having clone out (without it being decked out) withing 55 level skillpoint range zane will be much better than what it is now. so we have to await uvhm and level 60 cap to truly flow between 3 skill trees. i am also a big fan of using class mods to boost one set of skills and specing into completely different skils therefore maximizing the areas you touch and i shall use this for my high dps zane but that is requiring more witch craft, compared to playing dirty zane which is available early and will make people competitive with their co op partners easily (since so many people were abandoning playing zane because he is “garbage” and “does not do enough dmg” lol)

class mods are incredibly diverse and limited to 5 skill points right now so the options are not exactly great. perhaps what i am looking for is the one that will give me salvation and synchronicity this way i could spec freely for dps. because god damn there are some great guns out there but zane can not beat moze at that.

Curious to hear your take on the latest Zane buffs regarding the Clone & Sentinel buffs which were no slouch…

what exactly do you want to hear? were the buffs good and necessary? yes, are they enough? not for mayhem modes but then again balancing game around mayhem 3 is not exactly a good idea. did it make drone better? yes for regular tvhm mobbing is fine. would i change my play style? no the buff did not add anything to beat any of my current builds. however opened up more options for leveling up.

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Hello and first of all always thankful to those who spend time detailing 'Any build" and breaking down all the parts…

I’m sort at the crossroad of taking either Amara or Zane solo. I currently have them at Level 17 with two others and one will stay and one I’ll go forward solo. So for last couple of days I’ve been researching. I’ve been leaning to Zane for two reasons: appears more options as you can mix & match all three Skills at least giving you one extra distraction (Sentinel or Clone) and built for movement.

While the Shield is great and adds the buffs it also seems counter-active to the passives of Speed and Momentum in the Hitman Tree along with several others where you gain various Speed Buffs. So that’s where I’m a bit confused on which way and how I should respect my Skill Tree( from group to solo)…and was wondering if the Clone and Sentinel Buffs were really good or changed up the tree any. Thanks again…good stuff.

speed buffs are overrated and they only generate 40%- gun damage and you can not hit ■■■■ if you are running, momentum builds are severely overrated and lack in all the strong points zane has. other than that zane can truly build various ways. sentinel will always be unfavourable due to long cool down, both nades and digi clone beat it for utility. zane is a lot of fun, choose wisely.

TLDR: You play Zane wrong, and if you expect him to be as powerful as Fl4k, or Moze, or Amara, you’re stupid. Seriously though, you make some good points, most of the youtubers are pretty clueless, especially when it comes to less straightforward playstyles.

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So I have 8 points put into Playing Dirty with my class mod, and also spec’d into the skill that improves all kill skills, so this should bring my chances for extra bullets up to 100%. I noticed that when I get a kill I do get an extra bullet on some guns, ie. The Duc (but only for 4 shots for some reason, not 5). But when I tried the same thing with The One Pump Chump, I am not noticing the extra projectile at all. Is this perk bugged and only working with some guns? TIA!

it is not bugged it works, also 8 points only guaranties 80% chance per kill. therefore every 8 kills out of 10 you will get 5 stacks of playing dirty.

death follow close does not enhance playing dirty neither it improves % of proc nor it adds more stacks.

So even though this is a kill skill it does not get the 25% bonus from DFC?

nope DFC does not enhance playing dirty.( this has been changed post 17.10.2019 hotfix) now DFC actually boosts playing dirty’s procing chance 8/5 investment will result in 100% activation chance on kill.

Thanks for that. So you speak really highly of Playing Dirty. In your opinion is this skill more important to max out in this tree over Cool Hands and Violent Violence? Or just for boss DPS. For reference One Pump Chump, Flakker, Cutsman and Hawkin are prob my most used weaponry. Aside from Lyudia for bosses

it supports every gun you mentioned greatly, except for nighthawking but it is strong anyway. the thing is nothing is more or less important depending on what goal you want to achieve zane does not get his kills with rowans or lucians call right, since DFC is stuck at 25% and cool hands and violent violence give laughable numbers adding 1/4 to those numbers is also pitiful. i focus my zane play on playing dirty because it is the only massive dmg skill he has for example it makes for 100% dmg increase on single projectile guns 50% on 2 projectiles and so fourth with diminishing returns. now 5 shots is all it takes for some guns and those are the guns that i run like oculist thorns duce one pump chump monocle lyuda cutsman it still fairly decently helps with guns that have x3 pallets and maybe x4 but further you go less it contributes. so if you want run and gun play style you can skip playing dirty and zane will still work both for bosses and mobs. people are just mad because he does not do enough dmg in mayhem 3 extreme difficulty areas and good 50% of his augments are bugged and good 20% of his skills do not do what they should or outright do not work.

for your guns i advice playing dirty hardcorely otherwise you can get some dmg out of activating synchronicity and donnybrook with confident competence and barier at the same time it also works and is favorable on high rate of fire low dmg guns.

@Hexxusz0r My current build is here;
https://bl3skills.com/operative/#505000100000003050151353150050000000000

I run the kill skill class mod with +3 to PlayingDirty, +1 to VioViolence and +1 to GoodMisfortune.
I run an Augmented Rerouter shield with 20% skill cool down on Action Skill End. And my artifact is 18% health on kill with another 21% action skill cooldown.
Thoughts?